Will my amp still work when I tune down...

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

I was just doing a bit of research in to the frequencies of different tunings so I could compare them against the frequency response/equaliser sliders on my amp but I may have come across a bit of an issue.

I've started a new band with a couple of mates and in a moment of madness I said that when I get a 5 string, I want to tune it down to Drop G/Drop G sharp so the lowest string would be G1/G#1 (obviously, the "1" refers to the octave it's in) but here's where the issue starts.

The lowest EQ slider on my Trace Elliot GP12 SMX pre amp is 30hz which is fine for when I play in normal Drop C # as the frequency of C#2 is 34.648hz but the frequency of a string tuned down to G1 and G#1 is... 24.499 and 25.956 respectively. Now, I've played a 5 string tuned to Drop A# before (which is technically only half a step down from standard B 5 string tuning) and the frequency for a string down in A#1 is 29.135hz which is just under the 30hz and the amp seemed to handle it fine without any crackling or breaking up but I don't know whether or not it would be pushing it to drive it down to just under 25hz or are the amps meant to handle a bit more either side of the EQ faders?

Before anyone says it, I know Drop G is ridiculously low but it sounds so good. I saw Suicide Silence and a few other deathcore bands at a festival I went to, spoke to the bassist for one of them after and he said he played in Drop G so naturally, I want to see if my bass can handle it. 135 gauge low string for the win!

Cheers
Stevie

[warwickhunt]

It's as much about the harmonics of the note as the fundamental. The biggest problem you may have is that poor speaker cabs might not do it justice and may well just flap, added to which your amp will need to work harder to drive out those low notes which will eat up your amp power!

[civictiger]

Yeah, it will still work.
All the overtones of the low G# will still make the note 'hearable' as to speak.
I learn't a while ago that your brain actually works by finding overtones of notes and then tells your ear what note it is.


& You'll deffo want a high string guage, not neccesarily because you 'have to' but the extra tention means that the string won't be floppy - and will also make breakdowns much, much easier to play as your string 'fights back' on you and doesn't flap around.
I used to use 'heavy' guage Elites in my old band, who played in Drop C - anything around that type of guage will do, you really don't NEED the extra stuff.. and try and get nickle strings as they will provide a warmer tone and your bass will fit much better in the mix, aswell - especially live!

[Mr. Foxen]

Get hold of a variable high pass, it is more enlightening as to how important frequencies are to tone than charts. Basically, you miss surprisingly little below 60hz, even 100hz still has your tone, but missing a bit of guts. Spent lots of time detuned to A.

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Thanks for all the help guys. Sounds like I won't have any problems with it at all. With what Civictiger said:
[quote name='civictiger' timestamp='1316986934' post='1385290']
& You'll deffo want a high string guage
[/quote]
I'm going to be using a 135 gauge B string (well, low G# string haha) so hopefully that won't be floppy and it'll sound really nice with the bass. I haven't actually got the bass yet as I can't afford it but it's going to be either a BC Rich Widow WMD 5 string or the BC Rich Paolo Gregoletto signature model (the newest one with the soapbars and thru-neck) Such a gorgeous pair of basses and I want one even more every time I see them. I've wanted a 5 string BC Rich ever since I really started loving Trivium again because the tone Paolo Gregoletto gets from his BC Rich Warlock 5 and Mockingbird 5 is just sexy!

Here they both are:
Widow 5 WMD

Paolo Gregoletto Warlock 5 neck thru:


Just check out his tone on this song, it's to die for!
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDGmSWEosRM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDGmSWEosRM[/url]

[Mr. Foxen]

It isn't high string guage you want necessarily, it is high string tension, to compensate for the detuning. There are other ways to achieve it than thicker strings. That said I used a 0.145 for my low A, in steel because the brighter sound is due to stronger overtones.

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Bloody hell, 145? That's a heeeeeavy gauge. I'll probably just use 130, 110, 90, 70, 50 gauge from somewhere. That should be perfect for it. Either that or I'll get my usual Fender 7250M 45-105 gauge strings then buy a 130/135 low B string.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Are you down-tuning all the strings? For example; G, C, F#, C# for a four string? Warwick go to a 0.175 for their Taranis/Dark Lord basses, which go down to low F#..

[LukeFRC]

ampwise.... have a look at the tecamp pleasure pump that someone is selling in the accessories forum. Very good with the low end, you can filter off the top for a cheap bi amp system too.

[chrismuzz]

I tune down to A and use a .152! Although you can try getting in touch with Newtone Strings and asking for suggestions and/or a custom set. They can even do regular gauges with higher tension to handle the lower tunings if that's what you want. Whack em an email

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm not looking to change my amp so I'll get in contact with the string companies you've all mentioned and see what they say.
Well, when I have some money I will haha

[Darkstrike]

Most cabinets don't even reproduce the fundamentals of the low E properly, to be quite honest.

[xgsjx]

You might want to have a look at adding a PA sub to your rig if you're after some really low frequencies

[civictiger]

nononononoonono NO.
Do what I said and buy some heavy guage Nickel strings.

The last thing you want to do when your on a budget is to buy some custom strings. Theres no need to pay more for something you dont even need.

Nickel strings are gonna benefit you in a lot of ways:
1- they are a lot warmer sounding and in essence give out lower frequencies -which will make your drop tuned bass sound more powerful and it will sit better in the mix.. All the guitar distortions are gonna fill up the mids and the highs, you want to stay LOW in the mix (any maybe get a grit effect as a noverdub for some highs too, which will also make you stand out more)
2- Nickel strings last longer. Perfect for bassist on a budget.

I used a 'heavy' string set when I was in my old Metalcoare band, which our main influences were August Burns Red / Texas In July.
Each string was: 50, 70, 90, 110.. The brand I used (who I am actually endorsed by) do a 4 string set, similar, which is 45, 64, 85, 105, 130 which will do you just fine - trust me
Here's a link
http://www.basscentre.com/elites-strings/elites-player-series-v.html

[civictiger]

Also, when your getting paid for work do what xgsjx said, and get a good PA.. it will cost a lot for a good one, but trust me the crowd will feel it haha.

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Thanks for that advise civictiger. I'm currently running a 4x12 and 2x15 stack so the lows should really be felt by the 2x15 hopefully. I know when I have my amp up to gigging level in my garage it shakes things off the all

I'll look in to those Elites when I've got some money coming in as well. The 5 string thing has been put on a bit of a back burner for now as I need a new pre amp for my Tobias so that's the priority

[civictiger]

Very nice!
I seen a metal band, I forgot the name, that used a 2x15.. trust me, I was like rd row back (standing) and I left it haha.. I really want a nice 2x15

He had an old Mesa 2x15, I believe.

[civictiger]

Carcer City! thats the metal band I seen with it, haha.. just remembered!

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Well my 2x15 certainly does kick out some lows. I'm going to start doing what Billy Sheehan does though and use my 4x12 for the lows and the 2x15 for the highs. I've also sorted out a 5 string set for when I need them

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Found out I had the bass too high on my actual amp when my mate brought his 6 string round today. Thumped the low B and it made my amp go straight in to the red and made my speakers distort very badly. Took off about 2/10ths of bass and it seemed to handle it fine. I think it's time I re-worked my tone anyway.
Oh well. End thread really!