The Modes - if it helps anyone!

[aidanhallbass]

Wow! I am really learning new stuff.. Just goes to show you never stop learning.. Thanks!

[bassist_lewis]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' timestamp='1317637263' post='1392478']


Ahh i find this method doesn't aid me in anyway. With a system like this there is little way to relate it to a scale quickly, whereas knowing that a Dorian scale has a a b3 & b7 it is instantly accessible. I hope that makes sense in a weird way
[/quote]

yeah that makes sense. But OTOH its good to have a few different angles to look at one thing from. I suppose the tones and semitones method is easier if your starting from the same note each time. in any case as long your learning it doesn't make a difference what route you take.

kind of on the same subject, I've spent the last 4 years at university studying music, and though I think learning theory (note theory, Victor Wooten calls it) is very important for knowing the fretboard and getting shapes into your muscle memory, I'm finding as i play more and mature as a musician I don't really think about notes anymore, I just think sounds. Or sometimes I don't think at all, I just do it.
Anyone else found this?

[andydye]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1317854290' post='1395580']

yeah that makes sense. But OTOH its good to have a few different angles to look at one thing from. I suppose the tones and semitones method is easier if your starting from the same note each time. in any case as long your learning it doesn't make a difference what route you take.

kind of on the same subject, I've spent the last 4 years at university studying music, and though I think learning theory (note theory, Victor Wooten calls it) is very important for knowing the fretboard and getting shapes into your muscle memory, I'm finding as i play more and mature as a musician I don't really think about notes anymore, I just think sounds. Or sometimes I don't think at all, I just do it.
Anyone else found this?
[/quote]

You learn the tools (note theory) and then over time those tools seep into your playing and become instinctive...?

[skej21]

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1317890750' post='1395739']

You learn the tools (note theory) and then over time those tools seep into your playing and become instinctive...?
[/quote]

It does become instinctive, but instinctive is not always a good thing. One of the biggest parts of instinct is drawing on the things you already know, i.e shapes or note theory that you've previously encountered. This can become a major hindrance when trying to push the boundaries of what we expect to hear, as you often fall into the trap of playing something predictable through instinct.

Whilst this is good if you need to busk through a ii-v-i or a i-iv-v, as you have plenty of prior knowledge/experience to draw on for an 'instinctive' bass line, it often leads down the path of playing stylistically stereotypical bass lines.

In order to step outside of this, IMO, you need a solid understanding of all elements of music theory, so you can carefully consider/plan how you will use those tools to actively go against the grain.

Edited October 6, 2011 by skej21

[andydye]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1317893084' post='1395773']

It does become instinctive, but instinctive is not always a good thing. One of the biggest parts of instinct is drawing on the things you already know, i.e shapes or note theory that you've previously encountered. This can become a major hindrance when trying to push the boundaries of what we expect to hear, as you often fall into the trap of playing something predictable through instinct.

Whilst this is good if you need to busk through a ii-v-i or a i-iv-v, as you have plenty of prior knowledge/experience to draw on for an 'instinctive' bass line, it often leads down the path of playing stylistically stereotypical bass lines.

In order to step outside of this, IMO, you need a solid understanding of all elements of music theory, so you can carefully consider/plan how you will use those tools to actively go against the grain.
[/quote]

Yep, that's more like it!

[uncle psychosis]

I always think that when people are starting out looking at modes they overcomplicate things by trying to learn them all at once.

When people have asked me about them in the past I always just say "Learn the Ionian (major), the Dorian, and the Mixolydian and once you're happy with those three then worry about the rest".

Then you only have to remember that Dorian works well over a m7 chord and Mixolydian works well over a 7 chord, and then play endless II, V, I progressions to get the sound into your head

[Bilbo]

Learning theory in music is like learning to read and comprehend the English Language. As you are ready what I have written, you don't sit there thinking 'i before e except after c', 'that word consistes of a t followed by a h and an e so that means 'the', 'ahhh, the pronoun and the adverb are in the correct order' and so on. You glide over it without even noticing that you are doing it. Learning and comprehending music theory is a step towards using it. When you play, you use it all of the time, you just don't know that you are because you have internalised it. The more knowledge you have, the more it will come out in your playing. Learning a lick will only offer you the means to repeat that lick. Learn the theory behind it and you will open a thousand doors. Its the musical equivalent of 'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will eat every day of his life'.

At least, that's the theory.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1317978990' post='1396804']
Its the musical equivalent of 'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will eat every day of his life'.
[/quote]

You've not got that quote quite right. It should be:

'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day'

[skej21]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1317983268' post='1396874']

You've not got that quote quite right. It should be:

'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day'
[/quote]

Don't you mean 'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will sit in a boat, drinking beer and explaining to anyone who will listen that he is in fact a brilliant fisherman but on this rare occasion the fish just aren't biting! Normally he has at least 20 and they are all MASSIVE'