AER Amp One - The best amp I have bought - EVAR !!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319022286' post='1408917']Re the 8", is that based around the LA8? The higher-end 10" neo SICA drivers are also pretty good high-excursion units, I don't think I've found any 8" units that significantly outperform them on spec -certainly not neo...and they sound good, too.[/quote]

No, nothing like either. A totally bespoke design using different technology resulting in vastly higher maximum output - you can't buy anything similar at the moment.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319022286' post='1408917']I don't see/hear a problem with subsonic filtering on any reflex design (not just small boxes)[/quote]

Absolutely, it's a good thing on any ported speaker. The only time I hear a 'problem' with it is because the speaker system has a higher roll-off than I'd like and I'm noticing the lack of depth in the lows, but that's due to the enclosure design, not the subsonic filtering.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319023494' post='1408941']
No, nothing like either. A totally bespoke design using different technology resulting in vastly higher maximum output - you can't buy anything similar at the moment.
[/quote]

Wow, are you moving into driver design/manufacture itself? Impressive...

Edited October 19, 2011 by LawrenceH

[paulflan0151]

You guys know what your talking about. What do you think is the most transparent amp? I'm looking at getting a new rig in the not to distant future, what would you guys recomend?

[51m0n]

[quote name='paulflan0151' timestamp='1319023969' post='1408952']
You guys know what your talking about. What do you think is the most transparent amp? I'm looking at getting a new rig in the not to distant future, what would you guys recomend?
[/quote]

The 'most transparent amp' is not going to be very suitable for you, it will be a super heavy weight mastering orientated monobloc, something like a hexateq studio 700:-


The Warwick Hellborg stuff is going to be pretty transparent though, or you could try a Markbass F1 or F500, they are very clean and pretty darned flat too.

[51m0n]

As for the OP, these kinds of rigs are all about the filtering and limiting, and as Alex says, if you can live with whats missing then thats fine (a la the RH450) but some people are really going to struggle to feel happy with the transients being munched completely with around 15dB of loss, and the amp/cab doing virtually nothing below 60Hz.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='paulflan0151' timestamp='1319023969' post='1408952']
You guys know what your talking about. What do you think is the most transparent amp? I'm looking at getting a new rig in the not to distant future, what would you guys recomend?
[/quote]
Oi !!! Thread hijacker !!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319023884' post='1408948']Wow, are you moving into driver design/manufacture itself? Impressive...[/quote]

Yep, been working on that for a while now. Very excited about how the new stuff will perform!

[The Dark Lord]

I've spotted something interesting. if you look back through this thread (and other threads on this site), you'll see that the people who have actually played / heard AER products are amazed and full of praise. Go look on the web and see if you can find any reviewer who says anything bad about this amp. You won't.

If you can find one, go try it out. You'll be utterly amazed. At about £1K - it an absolute bargain.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1319034317' post='1409144']
I've spotted something interesting. if you look back through this thread (and other threads on this site), you'll see that the people who have actually played / heard AER products are amazed and full of praise. Go look on the web and see if you can find any reviewer who says anything bad about this amp. You won't.

If you can find one, go try it out. You'll be utterly amazed. At about £1K - it an absolute bargain.
[/quote]
[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1319026830' post='1408998']
As for the OP, these kinds of rigs are all about the filtering and limiting, and as Alex says, if you can live with whats missing then thats fine (a la the RH450) but some people are really going to struggle to feel happy with the transients being munched completely with around 15dB of loss, and the amp/cab doing virtually nothing below 60Hz.
[/quote]
I just don't have the sonic issues with the AER kit as I do with the TC, whatever the reason behind it. How it's implemented in practice is just as important as what's being done in principle - e.g. I love the sound of bass guitar from saturated tape, but I don't like it through a cheap nasty comp/limiter.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319031230' post='1409090']

Yep, been working on that for a while now. Very excited about how the new stuff will perform!
[/quote]
That's ace, I'll be following with great interest - sounds like a product I'd buy if it works as you say. Any idea on timeframe? Very curious to hear more, but I understand there're commercial interests involved so you might want to keep your cards close to your chest! Good luck with it.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='bass_by_name' timestamp='1319035480' post='1409160']Most kit is a compromise of some kind...

...Apart from the stupidly expensive gear like Krampera and the Hellborg.[/quote]

Everything is a compromise - it's the nature of engineering. But the important thing to remember is that 'compromise' isn't a bad word in this engineering context. With very expensive gear you may not be compromising based on cost but you're still having to trade off other compromises - and the Krampera and Hellborg gear isn't sufficiently 'stupidly expensive' for cost not to be an issue!

[51m0n]

[quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1319034317' post='1409144']
I've spotted something interesting. if you look back through this thread (and other threads on this site), you'll see that the people who have actually played / heard AER products are amazed and full of praise. Go look on the web and see if you can find any reviewer who says anything bad about this amp. You won't.

If you can find one, go try it out. You'll be utterly amazed. At about £1K - it an absolute bargain.
[/quote]

Yup I'd love to hear one, they do sound as if they may be a step up from most itsy-bitsy solutions.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319038624' post='1409205']
I just don't have the sonic issues with the AER kit as I do with the TC, whatever the reason behind it. How it's implemented in practice is just as important as what's being done in principle - e.g. I love the sound of bass guitar from saturated tape, but I don't like it through a cheap nasty comp/limiter.
[/quote]

Again, absolutely, implementation is everything, couldnt agree more, but in order to achieve what they are doing there must be significant processing on the signal, and some people are going to hate it, because they will notice what is lost.

I find it interesting that this is another system doing a lot of clever signal management on peaks that is being touted as sounding tubey. Now tubes do a beautiful line in squashing the transients and compressing the signal in a way that turns a lot of people on, thus allowing for the old nonsense about tube watts vs solid state watss (lets not go there). In effect a good tube amp is processing the signal to achieve a similar result when driven farely hard as one of these amps. Just with some extra colouring, although they may well have added a bit of that too.

Personally I like the sound of a really great solid state amp more than a tube amp, I like my transients right there in my face, I like recording direct and hearing myself back on fabulous monitors, transients there in all their glory. I am not the only one.

If tubey sounding compression is your game then you may well like what this amp does. I'd bet that there is a hard as nails brickwall limiter on the signal, and in front of that a compressor (possibly multiband) with a very soft knee and a pretty low threshold and a fast attack and release, easing you into the limiter so you dont notice it so much, but think "ooooh tubey" instead (hint, you really can set up a decent compressor to behave very like a tube amp in terms of compression).

Most people perceive bass perfectly well when they cant hear the bottom octave of it, and the high pass filter on this, along with the cabinet porting will all be done to make sure that none of those 200w are wasted on anything that you dont absolutely need to hear to perceive bass. It doesnt mean that there is much bass, it means there is enough for you to peceive it as bass. Done well and without something to a/b this against you will be happy for days. Compare this to a Barefaced BigTwin or any other at least decently deep cab (Epifani ul410 series1 for instance) and you will hear what is not there.

As I said before, if its done well, and you like the result thats brilliant, and I am sure its a really exceptional effort, but physics is physics, and I have enough experience with filtering and compression to have a really good idea what this will sound like.

Is it the right solution for you? Clearly, and I'm really please you found it!

Is going to compete with a big rig - errr no, not really, it may appear to but if you a/b it with one then the missing stuff will become more apparent.

Is it so incredibly portable as to make the difference not worth worrying about for some - well clearly it is for some.

Good luick to them sounds like a great product to me!

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1319040539' post='1409251']
Personally I like the sound of a really great solid state amp more than a tube amp, I like my transients right there in my face, I like recording direct and hearing myself back on fabulous monitors, transients there in all their glory. I am not the only one.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you've said. However I do think people who are only used to the sound of the cheap electronics in bass amps/pedals may come to mistaken conclusions about the potential of these things (obviously not you). After all, we often judge good bass tone from recordings which will have an awful lot of similar processing on them but the difference is it's done well. The luxury of a truly big rig is great - but I'd still take the AER over many a mid-price/mid-size set up where the compromises are evident without the benefits.
I do wish my F1 had a subsonic filter on it, that's a very different issue to the transients for me.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1319040539' post='1409251']

Is going to compete with a big rig - errr no, not really, it may appear to but if you a/b it with one then the missing stuff will become more apparent.

[/quote]

I agree, but make sure you dont miss the point of this thread that I started. This was never intended to be a "rig" to replace a full-size gigging set up.

It was purchased for smaller gigs, parties and open mic nights. From that viewpoint, it has hit the spot BIG TIME. The big bonus is that i was completely unprepared for the sheer quality of the sound. Totally unbelievable.

Another surprise is that it is much louder than I ever imagined to be. Indeed, it will be easily capable of gigging in the normal bars that I play in.

But it won't be, and wasn't intended to be my main rig. I'm just about to purchase an RH750 to go with my RS210 and RS112 for that.

But you gotta play one if these Amp One's. but be careful when you do, you'll be looking for that £1,000.

[51m0n]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319043891' post='1409299']

I agree with everything you've said. However I do think people who are only used to the sound of the cheap electronics in bass amps/pedals may come to mistaken conclusions about the potential of these things (obviously not you). After all, we often judge good bass tone from recordings which will have an awful lot of similar processing on them but the difference is it's done well. The luxury of a truly big rig is great - but I'd still take the AER over many a mid-price/mid-size set up where the compromises are evident without the benefits.
I do wish my F1 had a subsonic filter on it, that's a very different issue to the transients for me.
[/quote]


If you are looking for a high pass filter to put in your signal chain then our very own SilentFly's sfx company produces the [url="http://sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=thumpinator"]Thumpinator[/url] which is exactly that. Top quality kit the SFX stuff too....

Edited October 19, 2011 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

[quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1319055387' post='1409489']
I agree, but make sure you dont miss the point of this thread that I started. This was never intended to be a "rig" to replace a full-size gigging set up.

It was purchased for smaller gigs, parties and open mic nights. From that viewpoint, it has hit the spot BIG TIME. The big bonus is that i was completely unprepared for the sheer quality of the sound. Totally unbelievable.

Another surprise is that it is much louder than I ever imagined to be. Indeed, it will be easily capable of gigging in the normal bars that I play in.

But it won't be, and wasn't intended to be my main rig. I'm just about to purchase an RH750 to go with my RS210 and RS112 for that.

But you gotta play one if these Amp One's. but be careful when you do, you'll be looking for that £1,000.
[/quote]

Not missing the point, just concerned that the potential for the amp is being somewhat overstated, it will clearly do small gigs and quieter venues with aplomb and sound fantastic, it just isnt a replacement for a big rig. It isnt meant to be, but some of the comments are borderline evangelical and may be misconstrued. I'm sure it is a fab piece of gear, especially given its size, and certainly has a place in the pantheon of quality kit, but if someone reads these reviews at face value I think they may be disappointed.

[markorbit]

Just got mine today so I've only had chance to play it in the home at living room volume. I was going to wait a while before posting my thoughts as I'm still finding my feet with it but initial impressions are:- I don't hear the warm and fluffy thing. With everything flat I find the sound doesn't by default have the bottom and heft that I like - it would probably suit a fingerstyle funk player that likes clarity without going too deep. Adding bass and enabling bass boost with compression is more my type of sound and I found great improvement with that. I suppose the sound I'm after is more Motown than Chilli-Peppers. I'm not getting the 'valve' thing at all though. Sounds sold state to me (which funnily enough it is). From memory, the sound reminds me a little of the Markbass F1 - a sort of warm, dulled but with [i]something [/i]missing type of sound. I was hoping to replace a Walkabout Scout but that decision is going to need more looking into. Still, it's very early days yet. Just a little disappointed as I expected to be wowed beyond doubt and that didn't happen as I'd hoped. I am still experimenting with the controls at this stage. The balance and intensity controls have yet to reveal their charms. Unfortunately my other rig is a Berg IP so everything gets compared to that. Got a gig tomorrow so may take it. Everything could sound different again tomorrow.

Edited October 19, 2011 by markorbit

[Musicman20]

[quote name='markorbit' timestamp='1319068547' post='1409655']
Just got mine today so I've only had chance to play it in the home at living room volume. I was going to wait a while before posting my thoughts as I'm still finding my feet with it but initial impressions are:- I don't hear the warm and fluffy thing. With everything flat I find the sound doesn't by default have the bottom and heft that I like - it would probably suit a fingerstyle funk player that likes clarity without going too deep. Adding bass and enabling bass boost with compression is more my type of sound and I found great improvement with that. I suppose the sound I'm after is more Motown than Chilli-Peppers. I'm not getting the 'valve' thing at all though. Sounds sold state to me (which funnily enough it is). From memory, the sound reminds me a little of the Markbass F1 - a sort of warm, dulled but with [i]something [/i]missing type of sound. I was hoping to replace a Walkabout Scout but that decision is going to need more looking into. Still, it's very early days yet. Just a little disappointed as I expected to be wowed beyond doubt and that didn't happen as I'd hoped. I am still experimenting with the controls at this stage. The balance and intensity controls have yet to reveal their charms. Unfortunately my other rig is a Berg IP so everything gets compared to that. Got a gig tomorrow so may take it. Everything could sound different again tomorrow.
[/quote]

Hmm, have you had a look at the specs of the Genz Benz Streamliner 900?

From going from your descriptions above, eg disappointed with the lack of 'tube' character, relatively solid state tone from the AER, wanting a more Walkabout-esque tone, the Streamliner 600/900 is exactly in that ballpark.

At first, I was literally stunned with the amount of pure warm 'thud' coming out from such a small amp. It seriously has a very warm, complex, and tube-like character. Apparently it gets close to the huge heft of tone from the Aguilar DB750.

I started to have a few doubts, mainly because I hadn't played it enough, and comments about it only really working its best with 'P Basses'. It does indeed sound fantastic with P basses, but it also sounds good with anything I've put through it.

There is a very slight mid 'dip' with all the controls at noon, although I don't think its within the low mid area. This has caused some players, who are used to the more 'flat' nature, of a Markbass amp to worry about mids. I was one of them, until I simply realised 'noon' means nothing on an amp like this...as the bass is so strong, it just takes a small bass cut to 10, and mid boost at any setting to around 1/2, and you are almost 'flat'. There are plenty of strong mids built in, and the treble is very sweet.

It seems so far you cannot get a bad setting from the tone controls; it never has that problem even when using extreme settings.

It has a lot of clean headroom,. and will, if pushed, allow more 'tube-like' compression and breakup if required. It weighs hardly anything, has a great 'feel' to the build, and has a lot of features we all wish tube amps had.

The amount of kick from this little amp is quite extraordinary, hence I really enjoy it! I would not sell it unless they upgraded it.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Musicman20

[markorbit]

I briefly tried a Streamliner 900 but my initial impressions were that the head was VERY bassy, almost uncontrollably so. Love to try one again though and maybe spend a little more time with one.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='markorbit' timestamp='1319100573' post='1409788']
I briefly tried a Streamliner 900 but my initial impressions were that the head was VERY bassy, almost uncontrollably so. Love to try one again though and maybe spend a little more time with one.
[/quote]
Yip - 'flat' on the EQ isn't flat. It's like an old Fender tone stack.

Don't be afraid to roll the bass back to 9 o'clock or less.

[Musicman20]

Roll back the bass, ignore any '12 o'clock' preconceptions, (it took me a while to get over this haha!).

Bump the mids a little, treble to taste.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='markorbit' timestamp='1319068547' post='1409655']
I was hoping to replace a Walkabout Scout but that decision is going to need more looking into.
[/quote]

I don't think it sounds much like a Scout...I think this is the problem of looking for a 'valve' sound, it really depends on how they're employed. I don't hear the F1 as missing something (except against a properly decent PA amp) more like the Mesa adding something.

[51m0n]

At living room volumes you arent going to be really getting the limiter to do anything at all, and the compression will be doing very little so you wont feel/hear the tubey type compression and limiting of the transients until you raise the level further.

[lozbass]

Fascinating thread...if I'd done my physics homework at home rather than on the bus, I probably wouldn't have needed to become a bass-player. However, it's genuinely good to get a better understanding of why the Amp One sounds the way it does. I have to rely on my ears - and can't complement this with a knowledge of engineering - but my ears tell me that the Amp One is probably the best bass amp I've heard. My main stereo rig involves an Aguilar DB680 and 750 on one side (into a Berg AE 112) and an Alembic SF2 into an Epi UL502 (into an Epi UL112 S1) on the other. There's a lex MPXG2 in there too - used sparingly. As you might imagine, there's a fair bit of heft, alongside some serious definition. Transients I don't know about. I'm not sure what perceived loudness means either in technical terms, but I perceive this lot to be pretty loud.

My small rig involves just an AER Amp One. Large parts of the main rig are likely to be in the classifieds soon.

[51m0n]

[quote name='lozbass' timestamp='1319120098' post='1410182']
Fascinating thread...if I'd done my physics homework at home rather than on the bus, I probably wouldn't have needed to become a bass-player. However, it's genuinely good to get a better understanding of why the Amp One sounds the way it does. I have to rely on my ears - and can't complement this with a knowledge of engineering - but my ears tell me that the Amp One is probably the best bass amp I've heard. My main stereo rig involves an Aguilar DB680 and 750 on one side (into a Berg AE 112) and an Alembic SF2 into an Epi UL502 (into an Epi UL112 S1) on the other. There's a lex MPXG2 in there too - used sparingly. As you might imagine, there's a fair bit of heft, alongside some serious definition. Transients I don't know about. I'm not sure what perceived loudness means either in technical terms, but I perceive this lot to be pretty loud.

My small rig involves just an AER Amp One. Large parts of the main rig are likely to be in the classifieds soon.
[/quote]

wow....

[bassace]

But is it any good for double bass?