mcgraham Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Cheers bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 [quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1318798945' post='1406388']I'll be honest, I was surprised that you and Mike didn't use them more when I listened to your renditions. Mike's GS and your first fast BB rendition just seemed relentless with next to no space or breathing room for the piece as a whole... which is fine for basslines but not for solos (IMO). As I'm sure you'll agree, playing relentlessly without rests is akin to people who talk lots but truly say so very little. Rests let the piece breathe and lets whatever else you've played find somewhere to rest in the listener's mind... in the same way if you were doing a talk you would have pauses to let the point you've just made sink in.[/quote] The issue is pacing and, whilst I agree that silence is great way to break up the flow but its not the only one. A sequence of straight 8ths is going to be dull but both Mike and I broke up the sequence with held notes, syncopated notes, triplets and various other dynamic figures so 'without rests' is a bit harsh. Nevertheless, more space is an entirely legitimate suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Don't get me wrong Rob, my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I did say it 'seemed' relentless, and I didn't say 'without rests', I just said that to me there could've been more breathing room. My apologies in any case if I caused offence. As you say, there's other ways to break it up... I'm personally of the opinion that space is better at doing that the other alternatives you mention. I'd rather not play every other bar, than play something without rests albeit in triplets in those alternate bars. Edited October 17, 2011 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I guess its about context. A fast paced tune can carry that a lot more than a slow one. Endless sixteenths on a ballad would be a lot harder to take than on a Parker blues. But we unquestionably agree that space of a good thing (and that my Bossa solo didn't have enough of it)!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Oh I'd also disagree the issue is pacing. If that were the case all that would matter is the rhythms that you used... which (IMO) simply is not the case. I think that the use of space, and by that I mean rests or no notes or sound coming from your instrument has a foot in many camps - tying tempo, phrasing, shifting weight from one phrase to another, and all manner of other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Yes, I think comparing your fast Bossa solo to your slow Bossa solo is a great example. I think that space is something I've only learned to appreciate as such a valuable component in playing good music because I used to undervalue it for years. Space can say just as much as the notes you play if one let's it... which I'm sure you know, it's just something that comes out in my playing because I 'get' and 'feel' that need to leave space when playing now in the same way I get/feel that a piece needs certain notes. Edited October 17, 2011 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 By the way, I'm thinking Minor Swing as the next one? Does anyone have a preference towards this or another? I'll probably do one on Friday or Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Who is that by, Mark? Not sure if I know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Minor Swing? Django Reinhardt? It's more of a gypsy jazz piece... well... that's exactly what it is... but it's cool nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Googled it. Not my bag. Any more suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Not your bag? How so? Feel free to throw some other ideas into the mix, I'm always game for new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Don't like those Hot Club grooves and the harmonies tend to be too 'square'. How about 'Joy Spring'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Never heard it, nor have I ever heard of it, but I'll give it a shot I'll put something up towards the end of the week, either Friday or Saturday as I said. That way we are (or at least I'm!) doing something once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 HAHAHAHAHA! How could I resist! http://soundcloud.com/silddx/silddxs-brown-bossa-thats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Silddx rools! I haven't enjoyed the tune so much in ages!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Good effort mate - I tip my hat to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hey, thanks for that fellas! I'm glad I've got this one cracked. What's this Anusol thing, and does it have a link to the backing track for Giant Steps, I want to have that one next. Thanks again! Nx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You do know I'm only joking chaps, don't you? That wasn't really me, it was Alain Caron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 If you weren't joking, it would be even funnier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Anusol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Had my first ever bass lesson last night from a real live person. It was great. Inspired by Nigels lack of fear i am going to have a go at this track and put a little bit of soloing on it! I have a more up tempo version but in the same key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Go for it! Don't be afraid of making mistakes, just go for it. I fully believe that a player who asserts an air of confidence in their playing can bypass a lot of the killer issues we face as musicians that the same player would otherwise be criticised for without that confidence. Hesitancy is one of the greatest threats to musicality (IMO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1319013788' post='1408786'] Had my first ever bass lesson last night from a real live person. It was great. Inspired by Nigels lack of fear i am going to have a go at this track and put a little bit of soloing on it! I have a more up tempo version but in the same key. [/quote] Like McGraham says, just go for it! Although I've been taking the piss somewhat, I did make a genuine attempt at something musical that reflected my personality and emphasised the mood of the tune and its changes. I don't play jazz, I have no theory that would have helped me navigate the tune, and don't know the note names I was playing or any knowledge of what keys the tune is in. I started with a random note and took it from there, purely playing by ear after hearing the tune a couple of times. Have no fear, no-one will judge your results unfairly. My confidence comes from knowing I'm a decent player and writer in the music genres I play with my bands, that and the fact I approched it with a sense of humour and with nothing to prove other than to myself. I really enjoyed it! It was actually a very liberating exercise on a number of levels. And the most satisfying vindication of my efforts is I made Bilbo laugh so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It sounds great Nige - kind of Scott Thunes plays a jazz ballad - now that's compliment if I ever gave one - a famous jazz piano player said something like "improvising is literally about having the courage to go from one note to the next" - after that you've cracked it. I think the one defining aspect of jazz is improvisation and in reality the more you know and have at your finger tips, the more freely 'in theory' you can do this - but as has been extensively argued on BC technical ability/theory knowledge is not a substitute for originality, a powerful sound and expressive, emotional playing. I think your solo had a mix of all of these things - in spite of your protestations about not knowing any theory your ear is actually good enough to tell what works and what doesn't and one of the things I enjoyed most was a 'wrong' not then resolving to a 'right' one - if you know what I mean - that sounded ace. Anyway fearlessness is the way forward and I too am feeling particularly fearless with my playing too right now - leaping into the unknown and knowing you will land just fine if you trust your instincts is what making real music is all about... yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1319137249' post='1410504'] Anyway fearlessness is the way forward and I too am feeling particularly fearless with my playing too right now - leaping into the unknown and knowing you will land just fine if you trust your instincts is what making real music is all about... [/quote] I think this state comes after you have fully absorbed the core of what it is you are doing. If I 'let myself go' in the way you describe over a 12-bar blues or a static groove, it may reap rewards (no guarantees) but, if I did the same over a more complicated set of changes, it woudl fall apart within seconds. I was looking at some obsdcure charts last night and thinking how easy it is to get locked into a comfort zone and to forget the massive potential of improvised music. So much jazz that I play is based around the (not so) Great American Songbook or the half a dozen Aebersold/Fake Book tunes everyone plays that I can get locked into II V Is and cycles and routine turnarounds so much that even a slightly odd set of changes like a Wayne Shorter tune can throw the kind of spanner in that I am talking about. I guess the kind of freedom you describe is not something I am comfortable with. But it's not all about me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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