mcgraham Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) I would agree with both of you. I like to think of musical instincts along the same lines as muscle memory.. like martial artists train stances and particular moves, those respective stances/moves becomes instinctual responses when they meet with a particular circumstance that warrants that response. The more moves and stances they acquire, the more they need to adopt structured and focused practice to integrate that into their muscle memory and give them a wider 'vocabulary' to instinctually respond to different situations (I'm not a martial artist, it's just meant to be a rough example). In the same way, the more you have conducted focused and well structured practice in a wide variety of areas of music, the more you can trust your instinctual responses to fare well across a wide variety of areas. If all you do is straight ahead rock, you'll struggle with straight ahead jazz... as Bilbo has said, if all you do is straight ahead jazz, you'll (likely) struggle with some more out there jazz. But if we experiment and keep a wide field of view of different music genres and consciously work on those then it's easier to just slot into those genres and unconsciously respond to them appropriately. This is where consciously structured and focused practice pays off, because you can then unconsciously (asleep?) respond to those situations and reap the benefits. Of course, we all have off days, just as often as we have off days trying to string sentences together and convey ideas meaningfully. Edited October 21, 2011 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1319137249' post='1410504'] It sounds great Nige - kind of Scott Thunes plays a jazz ballad - now that's compliment if I ever gave one - a famous jazz piano player said something like "improvising is literally about having the courage to go from one note to the next" - after that you've cracked it. I think the one defining aspect of jazz is improvisation and in reality the more you know and have at your finger tips, the more freely 'in theory' you can do this - but as has been extensively argued on BC technical ability/theory knowledge is not a substitute for originality, a powerful sound and expressive, emotional playing. I think your solo had a mix of all of these things - in spite of your protestations about not knowing any theory your ear is actually good enough to tell what works and what doesn't and one of the things I enjoyed most was a 'wrong' not then resolving to a 'right' one - if you know what I mean - that sounded ace. Anyway fearlessness is the way forward and I too am feeling particularly fearless with my playing too right now - leaping into the unknown and knowing you will land just fine if you trust your instincts is what making real music is all about... yay! [/quote] Crikey, Mike, I am not worthy of such a magnificent compliment, but it raised me a very broad grin! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 To urb, McGraham and Bilbo, These are interesting questions, and I find the comparison with martial arts doesn't sit with me well. A martial artist often has a philosophical approach to his art, but the desired outcome is usually highly efficient self defence. Music is different, because the desired outcome could be anything depending on the situation. Pleasing your band leader, the rest of the group, yourself, the audience, or challenging them, or yourself. Could be financial gain through record sales, teaching, ability to play anything any time anywhere to a high standard etc. etc. BUT, a wrong note is not a wrong note if it achieves a desired or accidental positive outcome. And everyone's approach to music is different. However there are so many other factors involved beyond the music. That my slightly ridiculous first attempt at soloing with a bass, over a jazz tune (neither of which I am at all familiar with), made Bilbo laugh so much, and caused Mike to say it had 'originality, a powerful sound and expressive, emotional playing' is a totally accidental and very positive outcome for me. But if they'd heard it on Youtube from someone they had never heard of, with no real context, would their reactions be different? I have always thought cooking is more suitably analogous to music. You can have the most fabulous ingredients and make something that tastes horrible with them, and vice versa, and what you might find horrible-tasting may be delicious to someone else. However, it's consistency that's most important if you're running a restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 silddx, the analogy was meant to be restricted purely to the example of knowing and trusting different options for responding. Try not to take it further than it was intended please My point was was that skilled martial artists practice so as to be able to respond to a single situation with different options, e.g. to respond with varying levels of aggression, or with the aim of incapacitating an attacker to different extents, or (in a demonstration) in the most impressive way possible, or (in a competition) in the most efficient way possible, etc. All of your examples where a musician might have different goals can equally be applied to martial arts as a discipline, or other physical skills (e.g. football). In contrast to the above, an unskilled martial artist may have only one way that they can respond to a given situation... whether they can do it well or not is not the point, the point is that they only have one response to that situation. In the same way as an unskilled blues guitarist sticks to their pentatonic scale forms, while a more skilled blues guitarist may still stick to pentatonic scale forms, but knows and trusts the different flavours he can impart - he has options and has practiced them so whatever he wants to do is expressed, he doesn't have to think about it. He can think about it if he wants, but he doesn't have to consciously expend much effort to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Fair comment mate, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) No need to apologise! It's nice to have some proper conversation about music on a music forum (fancy that!) My apologies if my first few sentences seemed somewhat terse, they were not meant to be! Edited October 21, 2011 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1319193114' post='1411014'] No need to apologise! It's nice to have some proper conversation about music on a music forum (fancy that!) My apologies if my first few sentences seemed somewhat terse, they were not meant to be! [/quote] No worries mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm almost tempted to have a go myself. I know what it would sound like though. Splendid effort there Nige by the way, and the early gear grinding soon gave way to some smooth changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1319201303' post='1411197'] I'm almost tempted to have a go myself. I know what it would sound like though. [/quote] Just do it SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 OK a suitable backing track has been downloaded. I'll warn you that no attempt will be made to follow any existing melody. Or any melody whatsoever come to that. It will be an off the cuff pass through, and I'll have a go this weekend time permitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1319219958' post='1411553'] OK a suitable backing track has been downloaded. I'll warn you that no attempt will be made to follow any existing melody. Or any melody whatsoever come to that. It will be an off the cuff pass through, and I'll have a go this weekend time permitting. [/quote] Excellent! No point playing anyone else's melody, just express yourself mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1318798724' post='1406380'] Its strange to admit that the gaps are what makes it harder to play but easier to listen to. [/quote] 'it's not the notes you play but the space in between that counts' Steve Gadd I try to live by this and enjoy the space.. Loving the space guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil625sxc Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Hi guys Just seen this thread and have been having a go at this today - I've played the tune quite a few times but never solo'd over it...I've just got GarageBand and an interface so have been having fun trying to make it all work... :-) My attempts, if I've managed to link to soundcloud properly !! http://snd.sc/vLE6p8 http://snd.sc/rW0seq Really good idea for a thread this, i've found it a good learning curve to record and listen back, as I normally duck out of solos if I have the chance, and if not I usually just go to pieces anyway !! So is it joy spring next ?? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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