Scooby Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hi Would really appreciate your thoughts on whether the Aguilat Tonehammer 500 or TC Electronic RH450 is the better small amp head? The power for each is fine and I like the simplicity of the Aguilar but also the range of features on the RH450! Any comments on reliability, tonal flexibility, does either one 'flavour' the sound of the bass too much (I've read somewhere that there Aguilar does have a recognisable 'sound'). Musically, I play quite a diverse range of stuff from jazz to blues with some 'acoustic' moments ;o) I'll be using the head with a pair of Mark bass Club 121 (1x12) cabs. Thoughts very welcome. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'd have thought that the Genz Benz STL9 would also be a good candidate. There's one in the FS section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB3000S Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Personally, I love the mids of the Aguilar and think the TC rolls off the high end too much, so between the two my choice would be dead simple. Am however very intrigued by the Streamliner, and will definitely check one out when given the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1318878566' post='1407346'] I'd have thought that the Genz Benz STL9 would also be a good candidate. There's one in the FS section. [/quote] I have no experience of the Aguilar, but the Streamliner would get my vote over the TC. The TC colours the tone a *lot*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='bass_by_name' timestamp='1318927472' post='1407710'] What about the TC Classic if you dont want the bells and whistles. Some think it sounds different/better as well. There is so much choice in this market its impossible to say whether A is a better choice than B, C, D, E, F without knowing your non functional requirements and knowing which of these amps will match them. Unfortunately the world of e-sellers does not replace the skill and knowledge of a good retailer and using forums to replace the retailer only gets opinions of the gear that they have tried. But as you live close the what is probably the best retailer in the country get your arse over to Bass Direct and try them for yourself. [/quote] Fair comment, but in my experience a Retailer has an agenda! They have to shift a certain amount of stock or lose that brand. Moreover, most gear will sound decent in shop conditions -although admittedly you do get a 'flavour' of the amp etc. I am more concerned about user experience. Reviews and snippets on Youtube are all very good but the real proof of a piece of gear is whether it can stand the gig and each and every gig. BTW, I have already got 'my arse' over to Bass Direct as you suggest but my question to fellow Bass Chatters still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='bass_by_name' timestamp='1318927472' post='1407710']using forums to replace the retailer only gets opinions of the gear that they have tried.[/quote] You say this as if it's a bad thing... I've said this for years, but trying gear in a shop is useful, but it doesn't accurately represent how it will perform outside the shop. For example, had I heard my RH450 in a shop before I bought it, would have thought it was perfect for my needs. It was only after a few gigs I realised it wasn't for me at all. Don't discount the experiences of people who've extensively used gear. Yes, they're opinions, but so are those of the guy that runs the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1318878566' post='1407346'] I'd have thought that the Genz Benz STL9 would also be a good candidate. There's one in the FS section. [/quote] That would be me What I liked about the Shuttle and the reason I bought a Shuttle 6 and then upgraded to a Shuttle 9 is for the fact it does not colour the sound. It is very pure and lets the true sound of the bass come though. They work brilliantly out the box with everything flat but they are also very easy to boost certain frequencies. The only reason I am selling is I play in an acoustic band so only need a combo these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I have an Aguilar TH500 and have only held back from commenting here as I haven't gigged it (my current band is DB-only, so I use an Acoustic Image/EA rig for that). All I can add is that from home use the TH500 is a nice 'old school' sounding amp but it does not have the clarity/uncoloured nature I had with a MarkBass F1 I sold to dave-Bass5. It is great for rock/blues etc and the gain can be used to get decent breaking-up style distortion even though its entirely solid state. Its not as warm as a RH450 (which I have also owned at one point and saw as a slightly Mesa-sounding head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 From my limited knowledge on the Tonehammer 500 (although I have the Tonehammer pedal) the amp itself is a slightly more vintage orientated Aguilar tone; less of a modern 'twang' to the high end compared to the AG500. I would like to try one but I have no need for one unfortunately. Aguilar gear is always solid, stylish, and has its own signature Aguilar tone. If this amp is like their cabs and pedals, it will be great. The TC amps on the other hand have always been a favourite of mine. I love the quality, tone, size, and weight of these amps, and the fact the features are actually USEFUL is another positive. The RH450 does have a more subdued high end, (eg it doesnt have Marcus Miller treble sizzle) but the RH750 does get you there for that if you want it. The RH450 is more of a low mid kicker of an amp. Great for picking your way through a mix but still supporting the band. Ignore all the comments on actual/perceived wattage. Both amps will be loud enough for most players on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1318929926' post='1407744'] Ignore all the comments on actual/perceived wattage. Both amps will be loud enough for most players on here. [/quote] Ignore this ^^^ The RH450 is loud, but the way it deals with transients is worth investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I was just going to say ask Clarky! Here he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1318930067' post='1407748'] Ignore this ^^^ The RH450 is loud, but the way it deals with transients is worth investigating. [/quote] WOT - Wasnt referring to the transients/compression of the amp. The 450 is extremely loud, and ive really put it through its paces. I havent gigged the 750 much, but the 450 happily had enough volume (in fact appeared louder than a Markbass LM3 and Shuttle 6.0) in gig settings. Transients yes, if you want really fat lows, this amp isnt for you (althought the Staccato WILL), but the compression thing is emulating a tube amp being pushed a little, which is exactly why the older Ampeg crowd seem to like it. if you want a similar tone to a SVT w/sealed 810, eg low mid kicker, the Rh450 is it, albeit in my eyes with more to it and modern tone abilities. Re: absolute volume, I would not even begin to listen to the barrage of rubbish on talkbass about the actual volume. Most of them never owned or heard the amp and have an agenda. They are also probably home-based musicians who are far too interested in internet banter rather than gigging it. Another note - I wouldnt really take on the specs of any testing by a magazine, no matter how 'truthful' they aim to be. I have great faith in Bass Gear Magazing, its really good! There are too many variables, and its best left to the sound engineers and industry experts. Even the GBenz GB amp came in at a silly low wattage, apparently because it wasnt tested correctly. There are some interesting developments coming from TC in the near future re: actual wattage and efficient testing. Edited October 18, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1318930280' post='1407757']WOT - Wasnt referring to the transients/compression of the amp. The 450 is extremely loud, and ive really put it through its paces. I havent gigged the 750 much, but the 450 happily had enough volume (in fact appeared louder than a Markbass LM3 and Shuttle 6.0) in gig settings. Transients yes, if you want really fat lows, this amp isnt for you (althought the Staccato WILL), but the compression thing is emulating a tube amp being pushed a little, which is exactly why the older Ampeg crowd seem to like it. if you want a similar tone to a SVT w/sealed 810, eg low mid kicker, the Rh450 is it, albeit in my eyes with more to it and modern tone abilities. [/quote] 'Loud' is too general a term - the point I'm making is that there's more to it than that. I'm all about low mids. While I could hear the RH450, it didn't poke or kick. It started to feel lost. It's a similar thing the Loudness war in audio mastering, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It doesnt have that heft of the Streamliner 900, but I always dial the lows back on that anyway. The Streamliner does indeed kick like a mule, agreed. Funnily enough, the 450 I had was used mainly in extremely difficult situations for a bass player, eg cutting through 2 very high gain loving guitarists who had 100W tube amps and 4x12s. It did indeed cut through no sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1318930995' post='1407765'] It doesnt have that heft of the Streamliner 900, but I always dial the lows back on that anyway. The Streamliner does indeed kick like a mule, agreed. [/quote] But I'm not talking about EQ - i'm talking about the punch of the note. The transient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i think the Streamliner has a totally different opposite feel when it comes to transient, agreed there. It does indeed have a low punch to the note, which Ive never heard on other Genz amps before. Whether that is suitable for everyone is obviously moot, but agreed that the OP needs to check these out properly and take everything into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1318932696' post='1407790'] Whether that is suitable for everyone is obviously moot, but agreed that the OP needs to check these out properly and take everything into account. [/quote] ..absolutely. This kind-of takes me back to the point I made earlier - the characteristic I'm referring to isn't something which will be apparent when plunking away in the shop or living room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]My experience of TC is that I owned the Staccato and it had everything. It was as loud as any 500 watt amp I've ever used and the tone shook the stage when ever I played. All my bands loved it and preferred it to the MB F1 I had at the same time.[/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]The RH750 I use now has "too much" of everything. On 4 it's as loud as the Staccato was on 8 and the tone is as intense or as bland as you want to dial in. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There is no lack of volume or tone in either amp and the decider can only be, is this the right sound for you. You'll have to try both in order to answer that one.[/font][/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Interesting quote from the TC literature: "[i][size="2"]The difference between the raw power module of RH450 with no APM and and APM active: 60V vs. 46V or 450W vs. 236W.The difference is sound is drastically different as the ‘No APM’ setting is prone to hard clip, while the APM active sound will guarantee no hardclipping due to its ‘tube’ nature, while pushing out the higher long term energy density. "[/size][/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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