Going from 4 piece to 3 piece

[karlfer]

Any advice would be appreciated folks.
Lead guitarist has left, after several months of "I'm not doing that", "I'll walk if I get bored".
So, the remaining 3 wish to carry on. I would like to help thicken up the sound. I already know I am going to have to cut back on most things flash and fill the gaps with "solid", which is fine, it's a team effort.
Just wondering if anyone can advise on thickening the sound up. Only thought I have had is an Octivider thingy.

We are a pub rock covers band, doing about 30 gigs per annum, in the North West.
Cheers in anticipation.
Karl

[arthurhenry]

Chords, double stops, digging in hard, playing open strings along with octave or open G with 5th fret G etc. As much noise as poss!

[stingrayPete1977]

I cut my teeth in a 3 piece for many years and still feel at home when there is only one guitarist. A lot of bands try to do the Muse style dirty bass thing but more often than not it sounds very thin as if the bass player has stopped playing, two outputs to creat a clean and dirty bass signal to put out to the audience is the only way for that to work IMO. Unless your guitarist does loads of solos you will be fine, and get more money from each gig

[ZMech]

Analyse the hell out of every rock trio you can think of, Cream are the first ones that jump to mind for me.

[arthurhenry]

Most importantly - Sing!

[AttitudeCastle]

The 40-80HZ region (if you can) pump up, will help!

I find doing the flash stuff no issue with only one guitarist, i actually find it better! More room but as long as you fill out the sound better, ie leaving the low E ringing when you do something, but for this you need to work out your chops and know your harmonies/fretboard/scales!

I think if you can't do what you want without effects then effects won't help you, they only "augment" what your currently doing. Obviously this isn't a firm rule and is a vague rule and obviously if your like a well known fretless 6 string mod on here then that rule is out the window!

But i find if i can get the thing down without effects, then adding them is like the cherry on teh cake to perfect things

All IMO and IME

[Spike Vincent]

8 string bass.

[Shambo]

Play more notes. Compensate for the lack of lead by putting more movement into the bass. Some of the old songs won't work like they used to but some of the others might get a new lease of life from a re working.

[Happy Jack]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YHS6wEGnQ[/media]

In case it's not obvious, this is a demo of the Akai Unibass UB1 played against a drum machine.

ps: That looks a lot like Alex fromThe Bass Gallery.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Happy Jack

[Delberthot]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1319229208' post='1411703']
8 string bass.
[/quote]

or go for the man's mans bass, the 12ver.

Nothing sounds like it and no pedal can realistically emulate it. You can't play really fast or it sounds like someone throwing a piano and a baritone sax down the stairs but its mighty impressive in a 3 piece.

Alternatively, subtle use of an octaver during guitar solos is something else that thickens out the sound.

I played for 15 years in a 4 piece that was technically a 3 piece with drums, vocals, guitar and bass so have plenty experience. The 12 string isn't necessary but just work out what you're going to play during the solo.

[karlfer]

Thanks fellas, some great advice there, except 8/12 strings (4 is a struggle) and singing .
Still awaiting the court case from my last vocal extravaganza
Kinda excited about it really, only concern is the drop when guitarist/vocalist goes into solo. Am I Evil could be interesting.
Cheers,
Karl.

Edited October 22, 2011 by karlfer

[Lozz196]

More melody lines. Think The Jam, think Red Hot Chilli Peppers, think The Who - the bass keeps constant melodies, which fills out the sound. Think of those bands again, but imagine them using root-note basslines - suddenly the music is a lot less full. Don`t try to be overcomplicated, but work on small hooks and riffs which can be repeated. In effect, in cases like this, the rhythm guitar can end up doing the basses job, and the bass becomes the melody instrument.

[FlatEric]

Hi.
All of the above is good advice.

In our band, the singer doesn't play anything other than a harmonica.
We were Rhythm, Rhythm/Lead Bass Drums and Singer.
Five years ago we had a bit of a falling out with the Rhythm guitarist
which left us one man down.
At this point I have to say our guitarist is brilliant - not God's Gift or Prima Donna
at all - solid, tight, fluid and although he will never be Satriani, he is a very convincing
Gorham/Robertson, Paul Kossoff, Billy Gibbons, Angus Young etc.
We had gigs booked and he said "we'll be all right - trust me".

One rehearsal with only three of us playing and a couple of sleepless nights. . . . .
did the gig - outdoor job off a curtain sider and from that point we have never looked back.
I play guitar as well and that helped me quite a bit to understand where to bulk things out
a bit more but trust me, if you have a half decent guitarist that you can work with, you'll
find that you become tighter and the fact that you are one man down will only occur to you
when it comes to sharing out the $£$£$£$£$£

I did rely on an EQ/Booster pedal, as a bit of a security blanket, for a few months but now
I set the volume to a level and the "dig in" on the solos.

I agree with "losing some of the fancy stuff" - you need to be solid and there is no time
for knob twiddling during the set. Get your sound right and get on with the job.
You'll also become more appreciated.
My radio gear packed up in the middle of a Bad Co. song and just about mangaged
to sort it before the end of the song.
Comments were "blimey, all went a bit empty" and "just goes to show how much the
bass holds everything together"!!

Don't worry, you'll be fine.

Gook luck.
Let us know how you get on.

Cheers.

[hillbilly deluxe]

Done this a few times.My advice would be,keep on doing what you do,you should instinctivley know when to fill space or create it.Listen to as many bands as you can with three instruments,there are loads,ie,cream,free,zeppelin,rush,srv,etc.Solid and melodic is better than flash in this situation IMO

[Musky]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1319269675' post='1411970']
More melody lines. Think The Jam, think Red Hot Chilli Peppers, think The Who - the bass keeps constant melodies, which fills out the sound. Think of those bands again, but imagine them using root-note basslines - suddenly the music is a lot less full. Don`t try to be overcomplicated, but work on small hooks and riffs which can be repeated. In effect, in cases like this, the rhythm guitar can end up doing the basses job, and the bass becomes the melody instrument.
[/quote]
^ This.

It's not just 3 piece bands you should be taking cues from, but 4 piece bands with just the one guitarist as well. There are plenty of ways you could conceivably fill in to make up for the absence of the extra guitarist, and how you approach it is going to depend on your band and style of music. Geezer Butler and John Entwistle are miles apart in terms of style but both approaches worked within the context of their band. There's going to be no easy fix all to finding what's going to work within your band, but hard thinking about what actually needs requires filling in and what might be better with a simpler more laid back approach will pay dividends.

Interesting that most people have suggested buying some more kit though. No change there then.

Edit: Hillbilly Deluxe beat me to it, and much more succinctly too!

Edited October 22, 2011 by Musky

[Clarky]

I played in two three-piece bands before joining my current (cough) 14-piece One was a death/thrash metal band and the other a punk band. It was important to have a bass sound that cut through (especially in the case of guitar solos or the guitar dropping out), so I went for Sansamp BDDI pedal or valve-fronted heads. The main thing though IMHO is that the guitarist has the right tone and lines. If he plays a weedy, unaffected Telecaster for example, it can't help but sound sparse as a three-some. There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't work well as a trio. Plus its easier for rehearsals and you get paid better!

[ZMech]

[quote name='hillbilly deluxe' timestamp='1319276925' post='1412079']there are loads,ie,cream,free,
[/quote]
for a moment i misread that and wondered why i'd never heard of the band ice cream.

[Mog]

This kinda thing happened with my originals band. All it takes is some creative tinkering with the eq from yourself and the guitarist to fill up a lot of the space. You'd be surprised what you can get away with. For covers I'd suggest adding a loop pedal to your board so you can (in some cases) run two basslines at the same time. Again, it's tricky but very do-able.

[dc2009]

I'm a big endorser of small Boss stomboxes. Get yourself a CEB-3, an ODB-3 and use them sparingly but where necessary, behind solos is essential. Make use of your octave thingy if you're playing higher up basslines.

[chris_b]

A 3 piece band is not a 4 piece with something missing.

So, all the suggestions to dig in, fill in the gaps, play louder, play double notes/strings etc etc is bad advice. Follow this advice and you’re likely to sound a mess. Just play your lines and leave the gaps. There’s nothing wrong with gaps in rock music, so don't "fill them in".

Listen to the Hamsters, Feelgoods and any of the dozens of 3 piece bands out there playing your style of music.

[Mog]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1319283048' post='1412197']
A 3 piece band is not a 4 piece with something missing.

So, all the suggestions to dig in, fill in the gaps, play louder, play double notes/strings etc etc is bad advice. Follow this advice and you’re likely to sound a mess. Just play your lines and leave the gaps. There’s nothing wrong with gaps in rock music, so don't "fill them in".

Listen to the Hamsters, Feelgoods and any of the dozens of 3 piece bands out there playing your style of music.
[/quote]

Agreed completely. But. The covers game is super competitive ATM so any ideas which may help them compete with larger bands has got to be a good thing.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1319284372' post='1412220']
....The covers game is super competitive ATM so any ideas which may help them compete with larger bands has got to be a good thing...
[/quote]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]It sure is competitive. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Ideas? How many of you sing? You need good vocals and good BV's. You need flexibility in your choice of numbers. Don't buy pedals that make you sound mush, get a keyboard player who sings. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][font=Arial] [/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font]

[peteb]

You will have to learn how to fill things out - you can get away boosting your low mids a little as you now only have one guitar to compete with, try playing more octaves, be more selective about where you mute - but not to the point of leaving no gaps at all

Your remaining guitarist will have to adapt his style more, as he now has to fill in more of the sonic spectrum

I have nearly always played with just the one guitar player and would probably have to adapt to be less overpowering if I were to play with two!

[peteb]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1319284753' post='1412225']
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]It sure is competitive. [/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Ideas? How many of you sing? You need good vocals and good BV's. You need flexibility in your choice of numbers. Don't buy pedals that make you sound mush, get a keyboard player who sings. [/font][/color][/size]

[/quote]
Good BVs will help a lot and I personally would not rely on pedals to fill out the sound

[mrtcat]

Totally agree with Chris B. There's heaps of brilliant 3pce bands out there and they don't rely on "filling out". If you and the guitarist have reasonable kit then you'll sound fine. Just accept that you're a 3pce and don't try to sound like a 4pce because the only way to pull that off is to get another guitarist.