peteb Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You do have to 'fill out' the sound - to do that you have to leave spaces (if that makes sense) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_m Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Hi Karl, Sounds like what you need is a nice MAG300-210 combo with a built-in sub-harmonic... Seriously, hope all works out OK, and I'll look forward to seeing the new slim-line band sometime. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I switched out from a 3 piece to a 2 piece a couple of years back. No one wanted to sit on the loveseat anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1319227305' post='1411672'] Just wondering if anyone can advise on thickening the sound up. [/quote] Everyone else has given bass-specific advice. I'll give some guitar advice! Get your guitarist to get a second amp and run a stereo setup. Having two different guitar sounds (even if there is only one guitar part!) makes the sound huuuuuuge. We do this in my 3-piece and it works really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Thanks for all that folks, some blinding advice. Lots to work on. Due to the drummer being away for half term we don't have a rehearsal until week Wed, followed by gig on the Fri night, then every week at least one, until Christmas. So, one rehearsal then out as a 3 piece Mog, what's a pedal board? Uncle P, remaining guitard has just bought a Blackstar rig, but also has his old Rivera designed Fender, so that's something I will put to him. Many thanks, really great the help on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 If the Guitarists amp has true chorus then 2 amps will not be necessary, Some amps say things like chorus effect etc but for the type of effect uncle P talks about at least 2 speakers are required so as they can do their thing independantly just like 2 amps sharing one signal, The Blackstar amp may well have whats needed so it could be that he is already on to that If he buys a Fender Twin just make sure you stay and guard the van or pop to the lav when it needs carrying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='tony_m' timestamp='1319294107' post='1412381'] Sounds like what you need is a nice MAG300-210 combo with a built-in sub-harmonic... [/quote] That isnt as stupid an idea as you made it out to be. There's a local band (You've probably heard of them) called [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KicsxptiFw&feature=related"]Boomin[/url] who's bassist uses an Ashdown ABM and they have a huge sound every time i hear them play. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Entirely concur with the "don't f*** around with your sound, work with the spaces not against them" suggestions. As for stereo guitar amp-age - beware of mains hum loops. Either pull the earth lead from one of the amps (yikes!) or Gigrig sell a thing here [url="http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/AFXL_HumDinger.html"]http://www.thegigrig..._HumDinger.html[/url] and the page also explains about humloops Edited October 22, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_m Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1319306000' post='1412592'] That isnt as stupid an idea as you made it out to be. There's a local band (You've probably heard of them) called [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KicsxptiFw&feature=related"]Boomin[/url] who's bassist uses an Ashdown ABM and they have a huge sound every time i hear them play. Liam [/quote] The joke is that Karl used to have just such a beast...... until he sold it to me! And I'd not come across Boomin before apart from the [i]500 Miles[/i] vid, but I'll keep an eye out for them if they're ever up this way (though sadly I'll be out of town for their Christmas Lights Switch-on performance!). Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddys nose Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) From a soundmans place, Make sure the drum kit is miked its amazing how much space a miked kit takes up in the mix and while your at it bleed a bit of the bass signal in there too. Edited October 23, 2011 by Geddys nose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='Geddys nose' timestamp='1319310762' post='1412662'] From a soundmans place, Make sure the drum kit is miked its amazing how much space a miked kit takes up in the mix and while your at it bleed a bit of the bass signal in there too. [/quote] Now that's very interesting ... would never have thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You'll be fine. A 3-piece of drums, bass and guitar sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkypenguin Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Go and listen to Rush. One of the best 3 piece bands out there with one of the best bassists (Geddy Lee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Not as big an issue as you think. I've played in a few 3 piece bands. 1st was a ZZ Top, AC/DC, Free, Bad Co covers type. Same advice as others. Make sure your bass sound is full with enough low to mid to carry the songs. Keep it solid with occasional fills as and when needed. You'll know when by the feel of how the song is going. The other big one mentioned by Geddy's nose is spot on. The drums being miked makes a huge difference. The 2nd band same set up but doing everything from Floyd, Who, Joe Cocker, ELO, quite varied. Everything through the PA including Gtr synth, Simmonds drums which had huge potential for depth. Bass was DI'd with no backline at all. Gtr was using a Roland Jazz Chorus but only very quietly as a stage monitor for himself. PA was our own and had front, side and drum monitoring. The missing gtr parts are not that noticeable if everyone is competent and capable of playing what you think the song needs to be entertaining. Some trial and error with choice of songs might be needed but you will pick that up pretty quick. All the best and let us know how you get on. Cheers Dave Edited October 23, 2011 by dmccombe7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm over whelmed, thanks to all of you, really is some great advice. Now I'm just not even nervous about it at all. I am, however, nervous about having enough brain cells left to remember all this great advice cheers ev bod peeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Were it me, I'd listen to Entwistle, Geddy Lee and any bass players that fill out sound in a trio or 3 musician context. I use 8 and 12 string basses and frankly, you can tear down skyscrapers with them if you use them properly. The 8 can be played as fluidly as you normally would, but a 12 it's more difficult and utterly self defeating as you'd lose all the overtones. Maybe worth a punt.... However, it depends what you're used to. I'll never, ever play in a band that has 2 guitarists. I did 10 years ago and I didn't enjoy it. I've never met a band that can use them properly or even that creatively. Use the opportunity you're getting here to flex your chops and don't look back to your 2 guitarist days!! A band I got asked to fill in with (by a drummer mate) had 2 "lead" guitarists. Let me put that into context, One of them was brilliant. The other one was below average. I give you the lesser guitarist. The one who always has problems with "not following me exactly." I got asked to join and I whilst I helped them finish some stuff I could sense which way the atmosphere was going with alleged "overplaying" and his very lazy playing of stuff I wrote for them. If I played like that on someone else's stuff I've give up playing as I'd be so ashamed and I wouldn't want anyone to think that I wasn't trying, as it's so disrespectful of what you're being given. However, I digress. Stick with one guitarist. It's just so much more freeing on a playing level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1319300479' post='1412493'] Mog, what's a pedal board? [/quote] Websters dictionary defines it as "a storage area for processing units" By adding a loop pedal you can effectively create backing tracks on the fly. Edited October 23, 2011 by Mog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1319398359' post='1413712'] Were it me, I'd listen to Entwistle ...[/quote] Yup, listen to him. Good luck with trying to replicate what he played though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Best thing that ever happened to me in a band context. Dynamics are so much easier without some extra guitarist chugging away or noodling about to no great purpose. The gaps are the best bit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) About 6 years ago, the lead guitarist of the indie/rock covers band I was in uppd sticks and moved to London, leaving the singer/rhythm guitarist to fill the gap. It was the best thing that ever happened to that band. Everythign got smoother & tighter, we made the covers our own rather that playing 'off the record', we spent rehearsals actually playign songhs rather than listening to the guitarist fecking about with his latest pedal that he didn't need. So, here's my pointers - apologies if they've been covered before. 1) Concentrate on making the songs sound good to you - not just direct covers of the original recording. If a solo or lick makes the weight drop out of the track, can you drop the solo? Will anyone really notice? Can you change the bass of drums to give the track a different feel so the second guitar isn't missed? Can you do brum & bass versions of rock songs? Ska/punk versions of pop songs? 2) Try not to rely on effects to 'fill out' - thay can give things a different flavour but won't create something that isn't there. Having said that, I found an Aphex bass exciter to be very useful in a rock trio. 3) Activley listed to your band's EQ and change it if you have to. If you sound thin, it's probably because you've all set your EQ to give the second gutarist sonic space. Go back to square one, set everything flat and start playing. A bit more mids on the bass and a bit more bass on the guitar may be all that's needed to make the track feel right again. Your drummer could also retune his toms to fit in better with the new sound. 4) Don't be afraid of space. Dynamics are everything. 5) Learn new songs! Experiment! Remember that a good band defines the music they play, not the other way around. Have fun! Edited October 24, 2011 by TheRev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The most important thing is not to go too mad. The shackles are off, but no need to go crazy. Maybe a few extra notes, or a bit of extra rhythm to make up for the lack of other backing where it's obviously missing. However,[b] enjoy the space [/b]- you don't need to fill it all up. Make sure you keep everything in balance, lock yourself in with the drummer and compliment the guitarist - and your band might well end up playing the tightest you've ever played. You can use pretty much any tone you like, probably more mids & highs than you're used to. But remember - [b]people are going to be able to hear what you're playing now[/b]. I've played in trios for nigh on 30 years - and prefer it to any other larger groups I've played in. You'll be surprised how little you'll miss that 4th member, especially when it's pay time! Btw, I've only just read [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/158419-going-from-4-piece-to-3-piece/page__view__findpost__p__1412197"]chris b's comments from page one [/url]and agree totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Backing vocals FTW. As an example, Michael Anthony's BV's practically make a lot of VH and Chickenfoot tracks. They turn what would be alright rock into something quite special (IMO). Someone also mentioned the guitarist using two guitar amps. Good idea! Another suggestion is to use a delay pedal set to a single uber-short delay - like one repeat at 40-70ms and at about 60-70% level of the original - to duplicate the guitar signal into the same amp (or even the other amp), but slightly offset from the timing of the original. This is a cheap and easy way to give the effect of double tracking but live. You can then also get away with lower gain levels from the amps while still getting a heavy sound, which then gets a slightly fuller guitar sound because the guitar has more natural 'cut' at the lower gain settings. Also, spend some time tweaking your overall sound out front. A polished 3 piece sound can sound much bigger and better with appropriate tweaking than even just a less polished 4 piece that could be even at deafening levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1319443632' post='1414008'] Best thing that ever happened to me in a band context. Dynamics are so much easier without some extra guitarist chugging away or noodling about to no great purpose. The gaps are the best bit now. [/quote] Indeed. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1319446499' post='1414035'] we spent rehearsals actually playign songhs rather than listening to the guitarist fecking about with his latest pedal that he didn't need. Have fun! [/quote] This says it all. Liked this and oh so bloomin true. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1319456249' post='1414216'] Someone also mentioned the guitarist using two guitar amps. Good idea! Another suggestion is to use a delay pedal set to a single uber-short delay - like one repeat at 40-70ms and at about 60-70% level of the original - to duplicate the guitar signal into the same amp (or even the other amp), but slightly offset from the timing of the original. This is a cheap and easy way to give the effect of double tracking but live. You can then also get away with lower gain levels from the amps while still getting a heavy sound, which then gets a slightly fuller guitar sound because the guitar has more natural 'cut' at the lower gain settings. [/quote] This - I used to play with a guitar player in a 3 piece for many years that did just that - always sounded huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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