apa Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Ive sprayed 3 bodies now and Im getting the same problem with them all! Same process with each: 1. Sand back 2. Halfords grey undercoat (or generic sanding sealer for the nat finish one) x 3 (1 per day) 3. Sand back 4. Halfords filler spray for one body x 2 (1 per day) 5. Sand back 6. Halfords car spray top coats x 4 (1 per day) 7. Sand back with wet and dry 8. Plasti-kote Clear Super x 4 (1 per day) 9. Sand back with wet and dry 10. Sand back with wet and dry then Hafords T-Cut 11. Buff In all these processes I have used wet and dry varying between 180 grade to 2500 grade. Spray coats have been 2 passes per coat and left for a week before next stage. In the case of the final clear coat they were left for 2 weeks before sanding and T cutting. All looks good and the basses were assembled looking shiney and new. Then after a week the orange peel starts!! Its 'crazing'. Since they sit there for a couple of weeks with no ill effect and it only starts after the final buff could the T cut be reacting? And what can I do about it? Is there a way back without a respray?? Am I commiting a schoolboy error here? cheers A Edited October 22, 2011 by apa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulflan0151 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 usually the orange peel effect is applying too much laquer. As u r using a spray can it might be that you are holding the can to close or not moving the can quick enough. I've never used t cut on a finish so i'm not sure if it could be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It could also be because you are mixing brands. I have had trouble with effects pedals mixing Halfords and Plasti-kote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Rustins Plastic coat? I know that you can't use this over [i]any[/i] other finish as the hardener reacts with other paints and fillers. If it's not Rustins, it could still be a problem of incompatible finishes. Halfords rattle cans are generally too soft to work well on a guitar body and it's usually asking for trouble if you mix different types of paint, even if you leave it a good long while before you recoat. Try Manchester Guitar Tech. They have a range of cellulose rattle cans - they're a bit more money than Halfords but you'll be guaranteed a good finish and total compatibility. They have a good 'how to' page too. [url="http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/shop/category/nitrocellulose-lacquer/"]http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/shop/category/nitrocellulose-lacquer/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Thanks all I did wonder about the mixing of brands (schoolboy error No1) and Im carefull about how close to hold the can etc. What gets me is that the bodies can sit there for weeks looking peachy but as soon as I buff it up the peel appears!! Oh and no its not Rustins its 'Plasti-kote' as you find in B&Q etc. The question now is: Can I save the finish without having to start again? A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopercrip Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [url="http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/vmchk/Lacquers-and-Paint/View-all-products.html?TreeId=15"]http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/vmchk/Lacquers-and-Paint/View-all-products.html?TreeId=15[/url] Could also try these for laquer I use them and have always been happy with the results and service. To be honest mate you could try and salvage what you've already done, but you could waste another 4 weeks and stiil get the same result. I would bite the bullet and start over. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1319278999' post='1412121'] What gets me is that the bodies can sit there for weeks looking peachy but as soon as I buff it up the peel appears!! The question now is: Can I save the finish without having to start again? A [/quote] The thing about pre catalysed paint (pretty much anything in a spray can) is that once the solvent has gone and the paint is 'dry' it's only then it starts to 'cure' and it can take weeks to harden properly. So you mix two different paints, one on top of the other whilst it's still curing and sanding/polishing will just interfere with this process even more. I would strip them back and start afresh rather than take the risk trying to salvage the finish you've got there, you'll be building on suspect foundations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Give Doctor J a shout. He recently finished a project with the most [size=4][b][color=#ff8c00]ORANGE [/color][/b][color=#000000]paint I've ever seen.[/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 If you want to use the Halfords cans then you need to use an acrylic clear coat like Halford's own, not the poly-based plastikote. I've done this, worked well enough but it does take a LONG time for the stuff to harden. I think you'll have to strip it back unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) I see .................. Well I think Ill live with them a bit longer and see. Perhaps Ill call it 'relicing' . BTW Lawrance the worst case was done with all Plastikote paints since its black. Interesting! Perhaps this thread should be pinned for 'How NOT to spray a bass' Back to skool for me then!! Thanks all A Edited October 22, 2011 by apa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Keep at it, I'm sure even Leo Fender made mistakes when he was starting out (ahem *jazz bass* ahem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1319309775' post='1412646'] BTW Lawrance the worst case was done with all Plastikote paints since its black. Interesting! [/quote] Hmm weird, did that use a sanding sealer or grain filler that could have been acrylic or similar? If not then it may be something already in the wood. I have used the clear plastikote as a repair spray on a poly-finished Fender that had a few chips in, including one down to the wood. It didn't cause any problems there but the total area was pretty small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Alfie' timestamp='1319326136' post='1412831'] Keep at it, I'm sure even Leo Fender made mistakes when he was starting out (ahem *jazz bass* ahem) [/quote] Erm as a matter of fact the latest one IS a Jazz . Considering Im doing all this from a kitchen table I dont think Im doing a bad job Unfortunatly my 'spray booth' is the landing outside my flat so respraying 3 bass bodies all at once may upset the other residents a bit much. Im at the top and all those gasses are heavier than air lol. Its a des res too! [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319326984' post='1412839'] Hmm weird, did that use a sanding sealer or grain filler that could have been acrylic or similar? If not then it may be something already in the wood. I have used the clear plastikote as a repair spray on a poly-finished Fender that had a few chips in, including one down to the wood. It didn't cause any problems there but the total area was pretty small. [/quote] I did use a genetic sanding sealer from one of our pattern makers. And I will confess that it was my first go and may have been a bit keen to get the paint on so it may be down to over thick layers. (Its all coming out now lol) A Edited October 23, 2011 by apa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hi You have termed it as orange peel but described it as crazing "Then after a week the orange peel starts!! Its 'crazing'. Since they sit there for a couple of weeks with no ill effect and it only starts after the final buff could the T cut be reacting?" Orange peel is usually due to too thick or a chemical reaction and is a bobbly finish like the skin of an orange. Crazing is usually due to the shrinkage of the coating - literally splitting it into lozenge-shaped islands of glaze. Usually that is to do with the lacquer having too high a shrinkage compared with its bonding, or continuing to cure and shrink after it has hardened to a brittle state. This is usually a characteristic of the lacquer itself and therefore trying different lacquers on some test pieces might sort the suitable ones from the unsuitable ones. On pottery glazes, this is deliberately done to produce what is called 'crackle glaze' finishes. The reason that acrylic is often better for avoiding this is because it remains 'stretchy' for longer. The down side is that it never cures quite to the hardness of solvent based lacquers. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabson Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sounds like a mix of paint type problem to me. Precat is best avoided only go for proper nitrocellulose and make sure you dont apply to thickly trapping thinners! I use northwest guitars for my Nitro (same supplier as mancestr gtr tech) but it's owned by Kev Grey lovely chap. try www.northwestguitars.co.uk - I do! Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hey Jack, those aren't [i]your [/i]instrument services at [url="http://www.jacksinstrumentservices.com"]www.jacksinstrumentservices.com[/url] by any chance, are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks again all. Very useful stuff coming through........... This is the latest one. Pics dont show the 'crazing/peeling' well. Well they wouldnt, Im showing it off, so Ill try and take a fw more pics to show the prob. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/158865-annie-jazz-bitsa-deluxe/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/158865-annie-jazz-bitsa-deluxe/page__fromsearch__1[/url] cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1319359010' post='1412929'] I did use a genetic sanding sealer from one of our pattern makers. And I will confess that it was my first go and may have been a bit keen to get the paint on so it may be down to over thick layers. (Its all coming out now lol) [/quote] That'll be the problem, it's all in the genes of your genetic sanding sealer.... (sorry, couldn't help myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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