Scales!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='BassBomber414' post='164649' date='Mar 27 2008, 06:42 PM']Of course , once you've learnt all these tedious scales, it seems to be the 'in thing' to play them all as fast as possible , in a jazzy style , with enough improvisation to fool believers into thinking you are very talented.

And if you really want to bore the arse off people you can film yourself and put it on You Tube, with the other 50,000 who have learnt their scales.

Or you COULD play from the soul.

My advice, Miss Penguin, don't bother , some of the best players don't read or know any theory whatsoever.



Rant over, sorry.[/quote]

Or you could learn all of the scales AND play from the soul. Cos the SOOOUUUL is magic and can learn you things that you don't even know you are learning! And then you can play from the HEAAART, where REAL things happen (not like thems thats had book learnin' and can't FEEEEL their mojo workin').

Now, where's my crayon's?

[bassmandan]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='164346' date='Mar 27 2008, 11:31 AM']The general rule of thumb for improvising is that chord tones are the most 'consonant', they sound the best. The chord tones for Dm are the notes that make up the chord: D, F, A. They sound the best on the strong beats of the bar, particularly on beats 1 and 3 if you're playing in the most common time signature 4/4.[/quote]


....let's not forget of course that this is also the tonic chord in the saddest of all keys: Dm

[GonzoBass]

[quote name='BeLow' post='167060' date='Mar 31 2008, 07:17 AM']Gonzobass that is just the diagram I havebeen looking for[/quote]
Glad you found it useful!

[BassBomber414]

Some very convincing and valid statements made on this topic,in support of all sorts of bass theory , as a result -

I've spent the last week working through the Studybass site , in particular working through all the chords.

Of course ,I discovered the formal names of a lot of things I was already doing.

But I have to admit ,it HAS been very helpful, I found myself discovering the bass lines of lots of songs , just doing the excercises.



So you guys are right , I was wrong .

[mcgraham]

[quote]I've spent the last week working through the Studybass site , in particular working through all the chords.

Of course ,I discovered the formal names of a lot of things I was already doing.[/quote]

The legend that is Mr Joe Satriani commented in an interview that he learned a lot (if not all) of his harmony knowledge from a chord book that didn't actually state what chord each chord shape showed. So he learned the shapes, patterns and the sound of each, but didn't know what each one was. He said that it meant he would only use them when he felt they should be used, because he knew the sound and where they belonged, not because they had the most tensions or seemed the most difficult.

I think that is a great way to go about it, it's often the way I find out interesting chords. I hear a sound, or maybe I qualitatively desire a certain sound; I then work with single notes, then to double stops and upward (guitar specifically) until I've built up a chord that has the feel/sound/tension(s) that I want.

That sort of thing has become much easier with time because there's only so many intervals around, and only so many fingers and strings to place the chords on.

I'm glad you've seen the light... I mean benefit of theory

Mark

Edited April 3, 2008 by mcgraham

[GonzoBass]

This is an older article of mine which has been posted at various places around the web,
but I feel it bears repeating here.


====================================

[u]Is Knowledge of Music Theory Really Necessary?[/u]

I had a student ask me the other day if music theory was really necessary to him as bass player.

His point being that there are many of his "bass heroes" out there who can't read music,
don't fully understand the modes
and really don't even have a clear grasp of major/minor
other than the fact that some notes sound better than others at times
(and some should be avoided altogether!).
Yet these players are still on the covers of magazines, making CDs, and playing on MTV.

To this end, all my student wanted to know was technique, technique, technique!
He didn't want to hear all that boring theory about the relative major/minor...
Just show him how to do the four finger tapping riff!
And forget about the modes...
How do you do the double thump?!!!

I found myself searching for a way to explain to him why he should "eat his vegetables"
and not just his "cake" without using the old parental sounding cliches of-
"...because they're good for you"
or even worse-
"...because I said so"!

Finally, I came up with an age old adage;
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."

In other words-
I could just show you the tapping riff you so desire young Jedi,
and you could use it to impress your friends, fans
and possibly even a talent scout or A&R man (the first time they saw it)...
or I could explain to you what notes make up this riff,
the scale or mode it is based on
and how to apply this knowledge to other keys or even a progression
and you could in turn adapt and expand upon this idea to suit your own playing style
and use this technique to express yourself in many new, different and very musical ways,
not just use it for what is called "technique for technique's sake"
because all you learned was that one riff in that one key or position.

But I could see by the look on his face he hadn't heard anything past the
"use it to impress your friends and fans"
part...

I have found knowledge of musical theory to be a bit like a box of Crayons.
(Follow me here...)

You may not use every color you have on every drawing,
and in fact to most, that might be considered "overplaying"
or in this case,
"scribbling on someone else's drawing."

In fact,
sometimes you could even get by with just using only the black and white crayons to convey your ideas
(major/minor?),
but when you are able to bring out just the right color for a song,
(say, Dorian Mode for a funky feel?)
and bring out yet another color for the next song,
(maybe Mixolydian for a Blues?)
and then convincingly use yet another color for the next
(coaxing a Spanish feel from the Phrygian Mode or throwing down some Diminished riffs for a Fusion feel)
I think it makes your palette all the more interesting
and in turn just may help you to express yourself better and help you to reach your musical goals.

In the same instance, extent of music theory
(again, like boxes of Crayons)
come in many different sizes.

The basic box will consist of maybe 8 colors,
but through synthetic scales
(secondary colors?),
harmonization and chords
(blending colors?)
you will find the palette of colorful possibilities to be nearly endless!
(Remember the 64 box?!!!)

Learning music theory is a great way of both improving your music vocabulary
and expanding your appreciation of music in general.

The bottom line to me is-
[u]Why limit yourself?[/u]

Need a starting place?
By just adding the Flat Five to your minor pentatonic scale,
you will find yourself in possession of a very cool shade of blue!
= )

I hope this helps you as much as it did my students and me.

====================================

[MissPenguin]

This is turning in to a very useful thread it seems.

I will have to apply this to what i learn next.. And relearn, as i failed my grade 5 theory by 4 marks.

[The Funk]

[quote name='MissPenguin' post='169702' date='Apr 4 2008, 11:34 AM']This is turning in to a very useful thread it seems.

I will have to apply this to what i learn next.. And relearn, as i failed my grade 5 theory by 4 marks.[/quote]

I find it much easier to understand theory when I see how I might actually use it myself.

Good luck for next time.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='MissPenguin' post='169702' date='Apr 4 2008, 11:34 AM']This is turning in to a very useful thread it seems.

I will have to apply this to what i learn next.. And relearn, as i failed my grade 5 theory by 4 marks.[/quote]
The only really good thing about grade five theory (apart from just learning, which is always good) is that it means you can go on to higher grades on your instrument, so don't worry about it too much you will get it

[MissPenguin]

Yes.. I've done grade 6, and at the moment i'm just working towards final pieces for my coursework.
Just going through the pages it gets gradually harder to seperate chat from the actual theory/chord help, so when i get back from my job i think i'll go through and put it all into one document.
I need to start putting extra time aside so i can add all this on to every practise i do.

[muppethenry]

I failed my grade 8 theory by 8 marks... then passed by 8 marks! Woop woop!

As a quick question - what scales/technical exercises does Rockschool recommend for grade 8? I need some technical fodder (and the correct/best fingerings (although thats pretty subjective i guess!)) and dont wanna shell out for the book! Itd be cool if there was a 'Big book of bass scales and technical exercises' that was around to take you from utter begineer with scales to a pimp-ass scale-monster... and if it came with a free metronome... I can do like major and all the modes (and variants of the above), but need the 'next' thing to make me improve and to get me warmed up at the start of practicing.

Cheers!

[burray]

Wow... I know this is an old thread, but I only just stumbled across the Studybass site and searched for it on here which led me to reading through the whole thing. Blown away by some of the content I've seen this afternoon, and used up a whole lot of work time that I'd probably get in trouble for! O_o Anyway, made a lot of notes and can't wait to work on them when I get home.

Cheers guys.

[Piggery Bandana]

Hi there - first posting (do i get a prize??? - or am i officially beyond all hope now!)

Billy sheehan does a whole thing on his dvds about patterns all the way up the neck in each key ... which i have used to some effect for the past 20 years or so..... All the patterns are moveable and are linked to (although i understand nothing about!) the modes.

Not an answer as such but another pointer to maybe find either answers and a way to incorporate it into your playing.


Good luck .... you will have a kreskin moment, it will all make some kinda sense and bingo!!! you will be off and running pastoriusing all over the place..


Peace and good will to all musicians ...(not guitarists tho they are sods!)

[lucatus]

Nice topic! I didn´t know about Studybass, looks very helpful!

Cheers.

Edited April 19, 2011 by lucatus

[Stuart Clayton]

[quote name='muppethenry' post='485479' date='May 12 2009, 12:13 AM']I failed my grade 8 theory by 8 marks... then passed by 8 marks! Woop woop!

As a quick question - what scales/technical exercises does Rockschool recommend for grade 8? I need some technical fodder (and the correct/best fingerings (although thats pretty subjective i guess!)) and dont wanna shell out for the book! Itd be cool if there was a 'Big book of bass scales and technical exercises' that was around to take you from utter begineer with scales to a pimp-ass scale-monster... and if it came with a free metronome... I can do like major and all the modes (and variants of the above), but need the 'next' thing to make me improve and to get me warmed up at the start of practicing.

Cheers![/quote]

I hate to do the shameless plug thing, but I wrote a 'big book of bass scales and technical exercises' recently. You can check it out here:

[url="http://www.basslinepublishing.com/the-bass-player-s-guide-to-scales-and-modes.html"]http://www.basslinepublishing.com/the-bass...-and-modes.html[/url]

It has loads of free audio files with it (as a download on the site) that demonstrates all scales and modes being used in real world lines.

It's helped a bunch of my students at BIMM with their theory, and I was discussing the teaching methods used in it with a friend at Rock School recently who was asking my advice on scales.

Again, sorry for the plug, but it seemed relevant!

Stuart