Musicman20 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 There seems to be quite an influx of these new super 1x12s, especially over in the USA. Recently, Baer Amplification, Acme, and AudioKinesis all released new models, and the reviews of them are very very favourable. Eg, despite my lack of full knowledge on the specifications, they can actually almost cover/can cover the ground of a high quality 2x10, and perhaps even bigger cabinets. It seems there have been Fearful 12/6 designs on the market for quite some time. Again, I haven't looked into this, so no idea what the background is. I believe Barefaced also has one, which I havent heard much about, the Big Baby. I am actually quite interested in getting one of these, purely because the specs seem to tick all the boxes. Does anyone own one on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 From memory the Big Baby isn't that baby - its doing a different job. The BF Midget is both pretty small and remarkable in how big a space it can cover...but would need PA support for any real rock setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1319459226' post='1414270']From memory the Big Baby isn't that baby - its doing a different job. The BF Midget is both pretty small and remarkable in how big a space it can cover...but would need PA support for any real rock setting.[/quote] Yes, the Big Baby is bigger than many 1x12"s but so too are most of these 'Super 1x12s'. I'm just updating the site feedback at the moment and there's some about the Big Baby but it's very much a niche cab. Give it some real power and it'll show up much bigger cabs - the last one that went out replaced a 6x10"! Regarding the Midget, that's also one of these 'Super 1x12s' but downsized so there's less deep bottom available. The Baer, Acme and AudioKinesis all use woofers based on the two variants in the Midget and Big Baby, so a notch up from those found in other 'boutique' 1x12"s. The fEarful and Big Series cabs have the same roots in conversations between Greenboy and myself over the years, though there's been some divergence and optimisation since. The Midget can actually handle rock gigs without PA support (within reason!) - here's an example, with only vocals running through the PA: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgfaoq5J3kY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgfaoq5J3kY[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 As one who runs 12's and hears the limitations, I remain sceptical. I may think about getting a harder edge to 112's..at the expense of the big low end, and then run it in pairs to negate the loss, but then that doesn't end up as a one cab thing and therefore makes the 'solution' pointless, IMV. It might be cheaper to run a single but that is just about the only reason you'd consider it.. and therefore, I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I've no complaints about the low end on my midget. For the smaller gigs I do, its plenty with either BG or EUB. As things get louder it seems the midrange "bark" gets more pronounced - makes it cut better, which is helpful... but just doesn't sound so good to me (but probably fine for the audience). Would love to use a Big Baby for the louder situations but there's usually good PA and I doubt if my EA Micro would really have the umph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1319467794' post='1414422']As one who runs 12's and hears the limitations, I remain sceptical.[/quote] The problem is that you're treating all 12" woofers as the same! Volume displacement, which is clean cone excursion (Xmax) multiplied by cone area (Sd), determines the maximum low frequency output of a loudspeaker, assuming that the port remains linear. Ports never remain linear at high SPL so a large and well designed port also matters significantly. The Aguilar GS112 has a driver with a Vd of ~240cc - and it isn't a bad driver by any means, it's fairly typical of the decent bass guitar 12"s. The Midget has a driver with a Vd of 330cc. The Big Baby has a driver with a Vd of 496cc. So the Midget's woofer can produce ~35% more bottom than the GS112 whilst the Big Baby's woofer can produce over 100% more bottom. So if you find you need two GS112s to produce enough bottom at a gig a single Big Baby (or Thunderchild or Baer 112) could match that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319470999' post='1414505'] ....The Big Baby has a driver with a Vd of 496cc. the Big Baby's woofer can produce over 100% more bottom (than a GS112).... [/quote] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial]Alex, does that mean that the Big Baby goes to 11?[/font][/color][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial]I liked the sound of 1 GS112 at low volume and the sound of 2 at higher volume, so I'm interested in what that 100% "more bottom" means. I don't like cabs that produce boomy or pillowy bass. What does the Big Baby do with the 100% more bottom? Does it spread it around or focus it as tight, well controlled bass frequencies? I prefer my cabs to do that as I don’t want to mess around at a gig EQing any boom out of my sound. [/font][/color][/font][/color][/size] Edited October 24, 2011 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1319474527' post='1414596'][size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial]What does the Big Baby do with the 100% more bottom? [/font][/color][/font][/color][/size][/quote] Whatever you want it to! Just like two identical 12"s have 100% more max output than one, this has 100% more max output than a typical bass guitar 12". It achieves that through a doubling of max cone excursion rather than the usual doubling of cone area. This means you can turn your amp up much louder before the tone starts to change (getting thinner and more compressed) due to over-excursion. The best way to think of all the extra potential output is as actual headroom, which is often applied to amps without considering whether the cabs can do anything with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I'm looking forwards to being able to add some constructive comments here this week if all goes to plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319470999' post='1414505'] The problem is that you're treating all 12" woofers as the same! Volume displacement, which is clean cone excursion (Xmax) multiplied by cone area (Sd), determines the maximum low frequency output of a loudspeaker, assuming that the port remains linear. Ports never remain linear at high SPL so a large and well designed port also matters significantly. The Aguilar GS112 has a driver with a Vd of ~240cc - and it isn't a bad driver by any means, it's fairly typical of the decent bass guitar 12"s. The Midget has a driver with a Vd of 330cc. The Big Baby has a driver with a Vd of 496cc. So the Midget's woofer can produce ~35% more bottom than the GS112 whilst the Big Baby's woofer can produce over 100% more bottom. So if you find you need two GS112s to produce enough bottom at a gig a single Big Baby (or Thunderchild or Baer 112) could match that. [/quote] I guess you are assuming I'm talking about GS cabs and it is true I do own and use them sometimes but not all the time, for sure. Your video 'evidence' isn't much of a recomendation, I'm afraid, and neither is the styling of your cabs. I am not one for the home made look so when you start to produce decent looking cabs, I'll might well consider that since the cabs look worth a start then maybe the rest of the gubbins/design etc etc maybe, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It isn't about whether you want to buy one of our cabs or not, it's about the misguided assumption that all speakers of a given size have essentially the same performance! It didn't used to be possible to get 200bhp out of a naturally aspirated 2.0 litre engine whilst getting 30mpg day to day and running reliably for 100,000 miles with little more than oil changes either... Progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319476686' post='1414643'] ....Just like two identical 12"s have 100% more max output than one, this has 100% more max output than a typical bass guitar 12"....The best way to think of all the extra potential output is as actual headroom.... [/quote] [size=4]But I do think of cab headroom, which is why I never push my cabs to the point where I they would get close to running into trouble. If I want to play louder I'll always add cabs. In that case I guess this compression and over-excursion stuff doesn’t affect me.[/size] [size=4]So, if I run my 2 cabs at half power and the Big Baby runs at half power, they are going to sound the same? Would any differences in the cabs then come from the way they are tuned? I’m happy to carry 2 30lb cabs so the thing that would make me think of moving would be an improvement in tone.[/size] [size=4]I like my Bergantino cabs because they don't have a wallowing, pillowy bass tone. I know some people like that sound but I don't. Is the sound of a Big Baby tight or pillowy?[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1319479608' post='1414719'] I guess you are assuming I'm talking about GS cabs and it is true I do own and use them sometimes but not all the time, for sure. Your video 'evidence' isn't much of a recomendation, I'm afraid, and neither is the styling of your cabs. I am not one for the home made look so when you start to produce decent looking cabs, I'll might well consider that since the cabs look worth a start then maybe the rest of the gubbins/design etc etc maybe, also. [/quote] What has what the cabs look like got to do with how they work? Have you seen a Barefaced cab in the flesh? I can assure you, they don't look "home made". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Unfortunately look and brand name has everything to do with what we buy or not and this is not unique to just musical equipment. You can talk all day about how great something is but if you have never heard of it then of course there is always a natural sceptiscm. I have had a Barefaced cab on trial and unfortunately would concur with JTUK that they do look homemade - sorry! [quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1319488921' post='1414901'] What has what the cabs look like got to do with how they work? Have you seen a Barefaced cab in the flesh? I can assure you, they don't look "home made". [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1319490718' post='1414933']I have had a Barefaced cab on trial and unfortunately would concur with JTUK that they do look homemade - sorry![/quote] What, like this? And larger here: http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/images/page_images/BIGBABY.jpg Edited October 24, 2011 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1319490718' post='1414933'] Unfortunately look and brand name has everything to do with what we buy or not and this is not unique to just musical equipment. You can talk all day about how great something is but if you have never heard of it then of course there is always a natural sceptiscm. I have had a Barefaced cab on trial and unfortunately would concur with JTUK that they do look homemade - sorry! [/quote] Righto. Have to agree to disagree there. Mine is fine and dandy. The finish and build is functional and there's no problem at all with the workmanship. Quite the opposite. And again... considering the thread is about Super 12s... and what they're all about, what relevance has it? Looks very similar to mine but too small Edited October 24, 2011 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Similar but different! It was the one that did a tour around the UK about 18 months ago. [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319491792' post='1414947'] What, like this? And larger here: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/images/page_images/BIGBABY.jpg"]http://barefacedbass...ges/BIGBABY.jpg[/url] [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Just picking up on a comment that was made - not saying that it has any huge relevance!! [quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1319491833' post='1414948'] Righto. Have to agree to disagree there. Mine is fine and dandy. The finish and build is functional and there's no problem at all with the workmanship. Quite the opposite. And again... considering the thread is about Super 12s... and what they're all about, what relevance has it? Looks very similar to mine but too small [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1319492211' post='1414954']Similar but different! It was the one that did a tour around the UK about 18 months ago.[/quote] Yes, same size box and tuning, same woofer as we still use in the Compact. The only things that have changed are the plywood, the bracing, the textured finish, the corners, the screws, the grill, the feet... And as a very recent customer said: "I finally received my S12 yesterday, woo! The cab looks fantastic, no evidence of that DIY look people have commented on on your earlier pieces." And he's not the only one saying that kind of thing: http://barefacedbass.com/customer-feedback/2011-sept---dec.htm I'm glad that all the early cabs performed so well that enough people could look past the less than perfect aesthetics. But times change and what we hear now about the aesthetics is overwhelmingly positive. One of the old 'on-tour' demo cabs was recently put through some destructive testing because I wasn't happy selling it off cheap because it doesn't match the brand appearance we now expect - you may be interested to know that from 20' up onto solid concrete it bounced! Took four similar impacts to properly break it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Here's the other 'Super 1x12' cabs on the market - Acme Low-B112: Audiokinesis Thunderchild TC112: Baer ML112: And a fEarful 12/6 (cosmetically these all vary depending on who builds them!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Gotta love that little Acme! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Call me fussy but I would not buy any of them - I don't know the brand names and I don't muck like the look of them either! If I look at a Bergantino or Aguilar 12' cab they just look a whole lot better - of course the fact that most people on Basschat rave about them also helps shape opinions too! [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1319529885' post='1415122'] Here's the other 'Super 1x12' cabs on the market - Acme Low-B112: Audiokinesis Thunderchild TC112: Baer ML112: And a fEarful 12/6 (cosmetically these all vary depending on who builds them!) [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 a note on the home 'made feel' of barefaced i have a barefaced super 12t only a few weeks old and the finish is excellent, i was a bit concerned about the finish before i bought the cab but on close inspection it is of a very high quality indeed, i cant say that about a lot of previous gear that i have owned (including peavey swr laney warwick ampeg) plus if you dont like it you can always return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 With the look of all these cabs, I thought I had just walked into Maplins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ha ha ha! [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1319544309' post='1415455'] With the look of all these cabs, I thought I had just walked into Maplins... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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