Non anglo-american musicians.

[Monckyman]

Orys, don`t be offended.
I`ve worked all over Eastern Europe over the past 15 years and seen a lot of great bands, but on the whole, the jazz and folk stuff was best.
I can`t honestly say I like Polish punk rock or Slovenian funk very much, it just doesn`t do it for me.Partly because I have no idea what the song might be about.
I think that their time will come, because for me it`s all about context and reference, and that`s why I think Americans dominate the scene, because everybody has a good idea about American lifestyles and can identify with it.And so understand the references American musicians make.
When those in the west are more familiar with Eastern European sensibilities, then the music will be in the vanguard.
MM

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319794421' post='1418592']Hm, i can't see it as a problem. OK, you dont' undersand the lyrics, but the music might be good anyway. So you have a choice of knowing the music without understanding the lyrics, or missing the whole lot... People from other countries listen to Anglo-american music (as it dominates the market) often without understanding, so as they are used to listen to music in foreign languages, they also listen to music in other languages as well. And it's a great prompt for many people to start learning the language - my first words in any language I speak were from the foreing songs. And then by listen to the songs I know a few words and phrases in langugages I don't speak as well... I do understand that you here are not used to other languages, as English dominated the western culture and there is a plenty to choose from, but still it might be worth to look what is behind the corner. My job involves a lot of driving around Europe, and I often listen to the local radio stations. When I come back to UK, I have a feeling that they play the same 50 songs all the time... European radio stations play music in various languages, so they have much wider choice of "basic hits" ;-)[/quote]

Personally, I don't mind listening to bands in other languages. That's because I can identify with music as well as lyrics, being a musician. All I'm saying is that people who aren't as interested in music just want some familiar lyrics on the radio they can relate to. I don't think it's fair to say that people in Spain or Finland or Lithuania listen to more music than us here in britain. Almost every country in the world has "national" bands that people find popular as well as this "Anglo-american" or international english singing set of artists that are played on the radio alongside each other. The only difference is that here in britain, those "national" acts, the ones that aren't generally well known outside of our country, just happen to sing in the same language as the "international" artists. I don't think that makes you any more or less "cultured" or whatever you want to call it than us.
The thing is that you're bound to identify with eastern european music since it's where you're from, but how do you feel about music from Thailand, Belize or Ethiopia? My guess, is that to you and your fellow countrymen, they're just as foreign and unfamiliar as eastern european music is to us.

Edited October 28, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[matski]

I know of loads of central European bands - but then I do live in Warsaw

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319794421' post='1418592']Most of the posts were "eastern european related" musicians from USA (like Urbaniak, who lives in New Yourk for more than quarter of the century)[/quote]

Not any more he doesn't - he lives in Warsaw too. I know this because I visited him at his apartment a while ago.

Anyways, here is one of my favourite Polish bands - but I am biased as they are my friends and I'm in the video...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVrp_ysypHg&ob=av2e[/media]

And finally, on the subject of not understanding lyrics if they are in a foreign language to your own: I played with a band here for 2 years without understanding 90% of what the vocalists were on about - it's no big deal for me.

Edited October 28, 2011 by matski

[orys]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1319802627' post='1418746']
Orys, don`t be offended.
I`ve worked all over Eastern Europe over the past 15 years and seen a lot of great bands, but on the whole, the jazz and folk stuff was best.
I can`t honestly say I like Polish punk rock or Slovenian funk very much, it just doesn`t do it for me.Partly because I have no idea what the song might be about.
I think that their time will come, because for me it`s all about context and reference, and that`s why I think Americans dominate the scene, because everybody has a good idea about American lifestyles and can identify with it.And so understand the references American musicians make.
When those in the west are more familiar with Eastern European sensibilities, then the music will be in the vanguard.
MM
[/quote]

Hm, interesting point, altough I am not convicted by this one. And dont' worry, I won't be offended, I am just really curious about this matter.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1319808012' post='1418832']
Personally, I don't mind listening to bands in other languages. That's because I can identify with music as well as lyrics, being a musician. All I'm saying is that people who aren't as interested in music just want some familiar lyrics on the radio they can relate to. I don't think it's fair to say that people in Spain or Finland or Lithuania listen to more music than us here in britain. Almost every country in the world has "national" bands that people find popular as well as this "Anglo-american" or international english singing set of artists that are played on the radio alongside each other. The only difference is that here in britain, those "national" acts, the ones that aren't generally well known outside of our country, just happen to sing in the same language as the "international" artists. I don't think that makes you any more or less "cultured" or whatever you want to call it than us.[/quote]
I am not wanting to call you "less cultured". After all you are still main source of musical influence to the bands allover the world. What I was trying to say is that if something is played in national media here, you will propably find this in other countries as well. I am not talking about some local, niche bands. I am talking about mainstream. And as for mainstream - what mainstream you have here, can be heard elsewhere. What mainstream they have elsewhere you want hear in British radio, unless is in English. In that sense, you loose chance to listen to something which is popular amongst other nations.

[quote]The thing is that you're bound to identify with eastern european music since it's where you're from, but how do you feel about music from Thailand, Belize or Ethiopia? My guess, is that to you and your fellow countrymen, they're just as foreign and unfamiliar as eastern european music is to us.
[/quote]

I am afraid you are wrong on it. I know lot of music which is nor Eastern European, nor Anglo-American, altough so far nothing from Thailand, Belize or Ethiopia. Just as example my three latest discoveries: Alerta Kamarada (A reagge-ish band, I think they are from Columbia), Tinariwen (the Beduin band from Morocco) and ZAZ (French girl). I was also given a nice mix of Madagascarian music some time ago (now thats exotic, but actually very nice to listen to).

The problem with that music is that you won't hear in the radio, and since you don't know the language, it's hard to look for something like that yourself, unless someone recomends it to you. And I have to say more than 90% of such music is recomended to me by my non-British friends (Eastern European or French).

[quote name='matski' timestamp='1319815268' post='1418938']
Not any more he doesn't - he lives in Warsaw too. I know this because I visited him at his apartment a while ago.
[/quote]

Oh, I didn't knew that. But still, his fame comes from New York, not from Warsaw.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1319801995' post='1418734']

Plenty of great Eastern European Musicians about who are highly skilled.
Its not all Circus Music & folk night around the camp fire using Gypsy scales [ although that's great as well]

Some very Funky Polish dudes from the 70's when everyone thought it was just Americans doing the 'thang'.
(YT LINKS)
[/quote]

Hah, you got me on this - I never heard that one ;-)

But it's true, Eastern Europe apart of doing its own style also often succesfully played in American style: this is, for example, "the Polish answer to Shaft":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=476QyWZHqPA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=476QyWZHqPA



EDIT: Replaced YT links for a better quality one.

Edited October 28, 2011 by orys

[Earbrass]

I've posted these before, but what the heck...

Mari Boine: Sami music from the far north of Norway

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kprl0CECykA[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy5-q5oHtbg&feature=player_embedded[/media]

Edited October 29, 2011 by Earbrass

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319794421' post='1418592']Most of the posts were "eastern european related" musicians from USA (like Urbaniak, who lives in New Yourk for more than quarter of the century)
[/quote]
Well I can only pronounce the name of one musician on the clip I posted I do like the mix of different cultures so I don't mind a western influence as opposed to something more culturally pure.

For example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otOgxv_laFU

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319844197' post='1419392']The problem with that music is that you won't hear in the radio, and since you don't know the language, it's hard to look for something like that yourself, unless someone recomends it to you.[/quote]While that's true for the mainstream there are a number of good radio shows in hipper markets like Los Angeles and San Francisco that will search the world for great music. Unfortunately these are usually smaller college stations or public ones but at least in my neighborhoods we get music from around the world.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1319870226' post='1419465']I've posted these before, but what the heck... Mari Boine: Sami music from the far north of Norway[/quote]From a world where Bjork doesn't seem so odd Cool stuff.

[Vibrating G String]

Some of this isn't even human

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmtM76blb10

Check out his channel for all kinds of crazy stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/user/nadishana

Edited October 29, 2011 by Vibrating G String

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319844197' post='1419392']I am not wanting to call you "less cultured". After all you are still main source of musical influence to the bands allover the world.
[/quote]

Maybe not, but I think that's the implicatios of what you're saying.

[quote]
What I was trying to say is that if something is played in national media here, you will propably find this in other countries as well. I am not talking about some local, niche bands. I am talking about mainstream. And as for mainstream - what mainstream you have here, can be heard elsewhere. What mainstream they have elsewhere you want hear in British radio, unless is in English. In that sense, you loose chance to listen to something which is popular amongst other nations.
[/quote]

I wasn't talking about "local-niche" bands either. There are "mainstream" bands that are played in this country that most people in this country have probably heard of, but no-one knows of them outside of this country. So your point that "mainstream" in this country will all be heard elsewhere i do not think is true at all. It just so happens that the national mainstream bands and the international mainstream bands that are heard of worldwide sound pretty similar in this country. That's hardly our fault.

I'm sure there are "mainstream" bands in other countries that won't have been heard of in this country, but I doubt they would have been heard of in any other country outside of their immediate reigon either. I have been to spain on a number of occasions and I can't say that at any point in the hours of radio I've been forced to listen to that I ever heard any bands from eastern europe or scandinavia being played on their mainstream radio.

[quote]
I am afraid you are wrong on it. I know lot of music which is nor Eastern European, nor Anglo-American, altough so far nothing from Thailand, Belize or Ethiopia. Just as example my three latest discoveries: Alerta Kamarada (A reagge-ish band, I think they are from Columbia), Tinariwen (the Beduin band from Morocco) and ZAZ (French girl). I was also given a nice mix of Madagascarian music some time ago (now thats exotic, but actually very nice to listen to). The problem with that music is that you won't hear in the radio, and since you don't know the language, it's hard to look for something like that yourself, unless someone recomends it to you. And I have to say more than 90% of such music is recomended to me by my non-British friends (Eastern European or French). [/quote]

I think you might have missed my point on this one. As I said before, given that the people on this forum are musicians, they're bound to take more of an interest in music than the average joe down ' pub. May point is that will joe public in poland have heard of this music? As you pointed out, you won't hear it on the radio. That's what I meant. Of course you won't hear it on the radio, because it's not something that's familiar to the general public.

Edited October 29, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[LowdownRumble]

[quote]
I think you might have missed my point on this one. As I said before, given that the people on this forum are musicians, they're bound to take more of an interest in music than the average joe down ' pub. May point is that will joe public in poland have heard of this music? As you pointed out, you won't hear it on the radio. That's what I meant. Of course you won't hear it on the radio, because it's not something that's familiar to the general public.
[/quote]

Coming from Latvia myself, I can honestly say that most people don't find good music on the radio any more. Most is found through recommendations or on sites such as lastfm. We get lots of music from abroad especially UK and USA, mainly cus home artists just arent that musically gifted. There are a few good ones though:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziJGVUt27gk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziJGVUt27gk[/url]
same one in english for those that care about lyrics

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwAktiDGkXc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwAktiDGkXc[/url]

[orys]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1319889288' post='1419726']

Maybe not, but I think that's the implicatios of what you're saying.[/quote]

Well, I can't help if you think that ;-) I know what I meant...

[quote]I wasn't talking about "local-niche" bands either. There are "mainstream" bands that are played in this country that most people in this country have probably heard of, but no-one knows of them outside of this country. [/quote]

Name some examples...

As far as I can say, everything I hear in radio here (and I listen to lot of mainstream radio station, as my job involves lots of driving), I can hear in another countries.


[quote]So your point that "mainstream" in this country will all be heard elsewhere i do not think is true at all. [/quote]

Well, I never said that "they will ALL be heard EVERYWHERE, but I say that you usually can hear them somewhere in Europe.

[quote]It just so happens that the national mainstream bands and the international mainstream bands that are heard of worldwide sound pretty similar in this country. That's hardly our fault.[/quote]

Well, maybe there will be more variety, if you knew more of other countries music, so you can draw inspiration from it?

[quote]I'm sure there are "mainstream" bands in other countries that won't have been heard of in this country, but I doubt they would have been heard of in any other country outside of their immediate reigon either.[/quote]

Off course it's not that they are all known everywhere, but for that example in Polish radio you can easily hear music in English, French, German, Italian, Czech...

If you are in France, you can hear French, German, Italian, English music... Not that in every country they play music in every language, here you are off course right, but still the variety is much wider.

[quote]I have been to spain on a number of occasions and I can't say that at any point in the hours of radio I've been forced to listen to that I ever heard any bands from eastern europe or scandinavia being played on their mainstream radio.[/quote]

Well, you might to hear some bands from these parts of the word and don't know where are they from, as they were singing in English. Many of Polish bands, for example, who made some break through to the West record English versions of their songs. (And not only Eastern Europeans do it, French do it as well and even you used to do it as well, The Beatles for example were known in Germany for their hit "Sie libt dich, yeah yeah yeah... ")

p[quote]I think you might have missed my point on this one. As I said before, given that the people on this forum are musicians, they're bound to take more of an interest in music than the average joe down ' pub. May point is that will joe public in poland have heard of this music? As you pointed out, you won't hear it on the radio. That's what I meant. Of course you won't hear it on the radio, because it's not something that's familiar to the general public.
[/quote]

Yes, average Jaś in Polish knajpa might don't know most of the music we shared in this thread, but he will for sure know much more foreign singers and bands than his British equivalent. So he will know all these pop stars, singers and bands like Alizée (from France), Eros Ramazotti (from Italy), Nadya (from France), Jaromir Nohavica (from Czech Republic), Die Toten Hosen (Germany), Max Raabe (Germany, I think, or maybe Austria), Garou (from Quebec) etc. Of course in most above cases it's nothing great, just pop, but what do you expect from Jaś from local pub? If you climb "up" from "Average Jaś" to, for example, educated people, students or something, their knowledge of the foreign music will be better, they will know more "ambitious" music, and musicians of course will know even more.

And just to refer to one of the other posters, who said that there is no cultural background:
What cultural background you need to understand that song? It's a pop song, lyrics, as usual in pop songs, are nothing big (but still, I would say, better than in most pop songs) so if you don't understand them, you don't miss a lot and the song is OK, singer has nice voice and know what to do with it, she looks quite nice, and she has a bunch of good musicians playing for her (I choosed this one because there is nice bass line IMHO). And it was early 90s, she was first big pop star just after collapse of the communism...
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKZahL0vfo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKZahL0vfo

I[/url]s is to different from Western pop? I don't think so, so I hardly can see how lack of the understanding of Polish culture can be in the way of "understanding foreign songs".

[Batfastard]

I think the main problem is the British mindset. We're isolated from Europe, so we don't adapt like the other countries. Look at the fact the majority of British peoole still only speak english and in other european countries its common to speak two or three. British culture isn't as open to outside influence like the mainlad countries, meaning we miss out on a lot of stuff not just music.

[LawrenceH]

For a thread about all the world's music that's not anglo-american, there's a disproportionate amount of eastern European stuff here, including a lot which is very Western-influenced...gypsy's not the only alternative out there! What about Fairuz and other arabic artists? Indian subcontinent? Does Spanish/Portuguese-language South American stuff count? (And what about eg American migrant music that's not in English and comes from other traditions?) And what about African music sung in pidgin English?

I listen to plenty of music from all over the world in all sorts of languages, but very little from central/eastern Europe because it has an aesthetic I don't find particularly appealing. Though I did really enjoy the folk-tinged jazz in Prague when I visited a few years ago.

[orys]

[quote name='Batfastard' timestamp='1319894443' post='1419817']
I think the main problem is the British mindset. We're isolated from Europe, so we don't adapt like the other countries. Look at the fact the majority of British peoole still only speak english and in other european countries its common to speak two or three. British culture isn't as open to outside influence like the mainlad countries, meaning we miss out on a lot of stuff not just music.
[/quote]

Well, I have to say that you might be right. I expected much better response on that subject from the music community...

From my experience I might add, that especially common Europe is often seen, maybe even subconsciously, as some worse part of the world. If I was paid a pound every time when someone asked me what music I am listen to in my car and was surpsised that "it is so good music, and it's Polish/Czech/Hungarian/Serbian/Croatian/French/Kanadian/Latin American/Japanese*, that's amazing", I would propably be buying Richard Branson just now ;-)

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1319918859' post='1420188']
For a thread about all the world's music that's not anglo-american, there's a disproportionate amount of eastern European stuff here, including a lot which is very Western-influenced...gypsy's not the only alternative out there! What about Fairuz and other arabic artists? Indian subcontinent? Does Spanish/Portuguese-language South American stuff count? (And what about eg American migrant music that's not in English and comes from other traditions?) And what about African music sung in pidgin English?[/quote]

Well, I hope still to learn some "exotic" music from this thread. I guess that there is mostly EE music, because I am Polish and I gave some examples and people answering to me...
1

[quote]I listen to plenty of music from all over the world in all sorts of languages, but very little from central/eastern Europe because it has an aesthetic I don't find particularly appealing. Though I did really enjoy the folk-tinged jazz in Prague when I visited a few years ago.
[/quote]

<tongue-in-cheek> I listen to plenty of music from all over the world in all sorts of languages, but very little from Britain, because it has an aestethic I don't find particularly appealing. Though I really enjoyed this celtic music I heard once in Scottish pub on Outer Hebrides. But apart of that - it's all the same. I heard this, how they were called, Travis, and the other day, when I was on holiday in Bulgaria, there was this English guy who was listening so something called Coldgame, or Hotplay maybe, it was something along these lines, and I have all this British songs are so similar to each other... Nothing really interesting, if you heard some, you heard it all, so I lost my interest about them completely.

Ah, and there is this guy John Porter:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8y8MXFtkrk[/media]
, he's all right, but he lives in Poland, that's why ;-)
</tongue-in-cheek>
Hm, I should still have this hard hat from the old times when I was visiting construction sites, I think I should find it, it might come handy now...


-----------
* cross the ones which dont' apply in this particular case.

Edited October 30, 2011 by orys

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='orys' timestamp='1319984367' post='1420804']
<tongue-in-cheek> I listen to plenty of music from all over the world in all sorts of languages, but very little from Britain, because it has an aestethic I don't find particularly appealing. Though I really enjoyed this celtic music I heard once in Scottish pub on Outer Hebrides. But apart of that - it's all the same. I heard this, how they were called, Travis, and the other day, when I was on holiday in Bulgaria, there was this English guy who was listening so something called Coldgame, or Hotplay maybe, it was something along these lines, and I have all this British songs are so similar to each other... Nothing really interesting, if you heard some, you heard it all, so I lost my interest about them completely.

Ah, and there is this guy John Porter:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8y8MXFtkrk[/media]
, he's all right, but he lives in Poland, that's why ;-)
</tongue-in-cheek>
[/quote]

First up, I wouldn't listen to Travis, Coldplay or to be honest most modern UK mainstream indie because they are boring as f**k . Second up and more relevantly, there's a difference between music that happens to be made in a country but comes from another cultural tradition, and music that reflects an aesthetic developed in that culture. If I listen to jazz, it's jazz and often where it comes from is irrelevant unless it reflects something of the local culture that isn't just a clone of america - which is fine but then it's just 'anglo-american music' that happens to be made somewhere else, a bit like a made-in-China Fender. If I hear it and like it, makes no difference where it's from. But, if I'm going to actively seek out Polish music then I will look for something that sounds musically Polish. Why would I search for a specifically EE (or whatever) clone aping a musical tradition developed elsewhere unless it added something of a local flavour to make it unique? It's like going on holiday to Turkey and eating fish and chips

As for the more indie/punk stuff it sounds equally crap to me whatever language it's in, but

[orys]

Yeah, I was off course joking. And it wasn't aimed at you, altough I was inspired by your post ;-)

I have to say there are some nice Coldplay songs, and some of these singing girls are all right too, but most of it is boring, and I agree with you on that (now I can, as you told that first )
I used this names as Coldplay-ish things are seen by average Jaś from the pub as typical British music. And it's quite popular in Poland, to such extend that we have some bands who play it (I even found an example for you when they sing in English, altough original hit was in Poland and they re-recorded it in English later when they made their (mediocre) break-through to Europe).
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdmbuDD2hEE&ob=av2e"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdmbuDD2hEE&ob=av2e

B[/url]ut there is other interesting point you made and I started to wonder: what would you understand as "typical Polish music"?

[orys]

I mean: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_NCcJMLYSo[/media] this is certainly very Polish (or at least from Poland, as AFAIK remember this is a song from some other nation who used to live in Poland) but for last 100 years, and for sure since era of swing, the cultures are mixing which each other.

I can hardly imagine any rock music where there is no Hendrix, Beatles and traditional american blues in its roots...

So if we are not talking about bands like Myslovitz who do everything to sound like "Brit-guitar-rock" as it is called in Poland, how much of "Polishness in international idea of rock music" (or the other way round) you would like to hear?

Or maybe it's about some ideas which are not coming from the national roots, but on the other hands cannot be find anywhere else? Something what is completely weird and different from the other bands? Like, for example, Voo Voo
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=medSZgsoCtQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=27s[/media]
(In my opinion it's one of the best Polish bands ever, it's amazing how they change from album to album, this one is not example of their style, as there is no such things, it's just "random sample"...)
Is it something you would look for if you was interested in Polish music?

I am asking, because for me, I like also to look at "mainstream music" from other countries. You might say that, for example, rock of 70s was quite similar here in the west (Say: Led Zeppelin), and in Hungary (Lokomotiv GT), Czechoslovakia (Plastic People of the Universe), Poland (SBB), Yugoslavia (Bijelo Dugme) etc. but each of these bands are different, and I would not just stick to, say, western music, or Polish music, only because the music they played back then in the other countries was similar and often influenced from USA...

Edited October 30, 2011 by orys

[orys]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWUYMWlEyo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWUYMWlEyo&feature=related[/url] Now that some interesting music from Korea

(I know, you propably will not believe me, but I came to this site by browsing bass players on Youtube, not by browsing crossdressers, LOL)

I never seen such a 8 string bass before...

[alyctes]

Part of the difficulty with stuff that's not sung in English is that you're never sure whether you're listening to something like the Horst Wessel Song.

[orys]

[quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1320266965' post='1424685']
Part of the difficulty with stuff that's not sung in English is that you're never sure whether you're listening to something like the Horst Wessel Song.
[/quote]

Well, that works both ways. I know one guy who speak no English at all, but "he loved country" so he listened to "Racist Redneck Rebels" ;-)

[steve-bbb]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b55K0ODrDcs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b55K0ODrDcs[/url]