Mr. Foxen Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Should ignore watts all round and go directly to SPL, maybe via voltage swing for the scenic route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1324777619' post='1477840'] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial]As I said last time, it means that the RH450, Classic and Staccato are rated at 450 watts and the RH750 at 750 watts[i][font=Arial].[/font][/i] These are the numbers, the [i][font=Arial]only[/font][/i] numbers, you use when matching cabs.[/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial][color=#222222][font=Arial]I played my Staccato through 2 300 watt cabs and my RH750 goes through 2 400 watt cabs. I'd be surprised if you really think that your RH450 is actually only putting out 236 watts!![/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/size] [/quote] Would you say that the RH750 is much 'louder' than your Staccato, or is it a case of more 'slam'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1324849232' post='1478137'] Should ignore watts all round and go directly to SPL, maybe via voltage swing for the scenic route. [/quote] Agreed. The sticker on the back of my Acoustic cabs, tells me that SPL may exceed 120db within 10ft of the cab. The amp used to power the cabs is rated at 125 watts and is over 30 years old. Out of interest, my 575w Ashdown head, sounds no louder (or very little) through the same cab... I wouldn't say that "old watts" are louder than "new watts" but wattages are: a) Probably measured in a different way. b)That manufacturers exaggerate their wattages. Or more likely. c) That the wattage of your amp makes verry little difference to "volume" Edited January 1, 2012 by 4-string-thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The problem with measuring by SPL is that this would only be possible with combo's. You cannot do this with heads as the speaker as there are too many variables such as speaker sensitivity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 "Wattage" also relies on the cabinet since it varies with impedance, hence voltage swing, since that is the what the amp provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1325462303' post='1483451'] "Wattage" also relies on the cabinet since it varies with impedance, hence voltage swing, since that is the what the amp provides. [/quote]+1, and that's another reason why even rating amps with watts is of dubious value. They should be rated by voltage swing, just as light bulbs should be rated by lumens, which completely removes the fudge factor. But that's very much diametrically opposed to the goals of marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) What's going on here is a 'Top Trumps' approach to picking gear. You line up spec sheets and prices, balance your criteria and then choose blind. This is understandable given the lack of shops stocking bass gear and even in specialists you are unlikely to be able to setup a rig and play it loud (with a nasty guitarist playing alongside just for a reality check). No wonder this debate is a hot one. Money is tight and constantly buying gear just to try it out and to sell it on is punishing. No one wants to buy a lemon. The answers are being sought in electronics when they are really in psycho-acoustics. Alex's 8 points about 3 pages back hold all you need to think about. A point I will add is drawn from an Adi Vines column in Guitar and Bass magazine a few months ago. He compared in-ear monitoring with old fashioned wedges. Floor monitors he contended made a band tighter because they were getting some of the tasty volume the audience were. I have a friend whose 300W Ashdown into a GK BLX 4x10 and 1x15 sounds louder than my SWR 500W and Compact. Did I say louder? Well it's gutsier, ballsier. Part of this I think is the feel of the rig shaking the stage, the punchy mids up close at my ear level. Many of our early gigs I was frustrated by setups where the bass amp on stage was low to get DI or miking to the PA good without feedback. I still wonder about getting some drummer headphones and standing there looking a noob like Paul Gilbert or Keith Moon (or do they look cool?). Hearing yourself, hearing the band, getting some volume in your gut. These are the things we crave, yet have to juggle with what the audience hears. Beware sitting in bedroom A/B-ing amps/cabs. If Class D amps suck it's because they don't compress/distort/clip in a musical way. Using figures on them will just keep us chasing our tails. Edited January 2, 2012 by cytania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 [quote name='cytania' timestamp='1325485856' post='1483527'] I still wonder about getting some drummer headphones and standing there looking a noob like Paul Gilbert or Keith Moon (or do they look cool?). [/quote]Danny Seraphine used headphones back in the 60s, for a very good reason: foldback monitors had not yet been invented. No one ever accused him of being a noob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 [size=5][sup]Hmmm.... I have yet to come across any cab which I didn't think I could break ( the speaker) if I allowed things to get out of hand.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]I have two amps here, rated at 400 and 550 watts... anyone want to send me a couple to 'test'.. ????[/sup][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 [quote name='cytania' timestamp='1325485856' post='1483527'] If Class D amps suck it's because they don't compress/distort/clip in a musical way. [/quote] I find a valve sim pre-amp useful for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1325465942' post='1483487'] +1, and that's another reason why even rating amps with watts is of dubious value. They should be rated by voltage swing, just as light bulbs should be rated by lumens, which completely removes the fudge factor. But that's very much diametrically opposed to the goals of marketing. [/quote] And current capacity. A 100v voltage swing is no good if it can only deliver 0.1 amps! But then if you talk voltage swing and amps you're quickly heading back towards watts, or VA at least, and then are we talking peak voltage swing or RMS voltage swing, and so on, and round we go again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 [quote name='alanbass1' timestamp='1325448692' post='1483294'] ....Would you say that the RH750 is much 'louder' than your Staccato, or is it a case of more 'slam'?.... [/quote] [size=4]There is a lot of "slam/punch" in the RH750, but I'm definitely getting a lot more volume from the RH750 than I got from the Staccato through the same cabs. The Staccato master volume was at 3 o'clock and I can't get the RH750 past 10 o'clock. [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I know nothing too technical about amps or cabs and being originally a guitarist I have a couple of combos 30 watt 60 watt and a half stack all were valve in fact I still own them all Fenders and Marshalls. I would use a different one depending on the size of the venue, and if I was micing up. Now I play bass as well and have gone through more bass stuff in the last 3 years than I have guitar gear in the last 30 years. My only criterion is when I am doing a small venue with a compact PA can I play without PA support. Here are the results: ashdown mag 115 300 ----no sold Peavey TNT 130 ----yes sold too heavy Roland DB 500----no sold Roland DB700----no sold Ashdown superfly ----not a chance sold TE AH 250 ----- yes (use it all the time) Peavey T max ----yes (use it all the time) EA IAmps 500 ----yes just about Phil Jones briefcase with 4b cab---just about sold TE AH150 (3 of them)----yes sold them when I got the AH 250 just my observations skez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.