Walking Jazz, two chords per bar

[lobematt]

When I'm playing my walking lines (which at the moment are fairly simple R37R or R35R type things) what is the best way to approach a bar with two chords in it? R - 5 for both? If it helps the tune I'm looking at is Autumn Leaves. Thanks!

[jakenewmanbass]

I would try to aim for notes that work well with both chords and to give motion to the line I would particularly think about making connections that use passing tones, that way lines feel more natural and have a linear sense rather than from chord to chord in isolation
eg Amin to D7 in one bar one line I would use would be A, C, D, F#. the A is first root the C is common to both chords (3rd and 7th respectively) D root F# 3rd but also leading tone for Gmaj (the likely destination of that sequence)
most importantly realise that the example given is one in many many many possibles and to be cogent and make lines that don't repeat and become stilted you need to know lots, but use the principles behind my suggestion and you will have learning material for life.

[lobematt]

Cheers I'll give it a go!

[Bilbo]

The options are infinite and limited at the same time. Chord tones are a reliable default but, depending on the sequence, straight roots can work e.g a descending chord sequence can sound great with just root notes or chromatics or semi tones above or below the target note etc (F B Bb D Eb A Ab etc. Like all such things, if you us it once, the chances are that using it again will sound predictable and stilted. This is stuff that takes a lifetime to master and your appraoch will be different to mine and to Jakes. That's the art of it. Keep experimenting and keep listening to the greats.

[Coilte]

I'd recommend getting Ed Friedland's "Building Walking Basslines." I am working my way through it at present and find it very good.

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Edited October 31, 2011 by Coilte

[jakenewmanbass]

I hear good things about Ed's book and also the evolving bassist by Rufus Reid was very useful for me in getting used to the sounds of changes, the more the sound of the chord is fixed in your hearing (musical hearing I mean) the better chance you have of playing appropriate notes to accompany the chord.

[paul_5]

+1 for Ed Friedland's books (there's an "advanced walking bass" book too). Fantastic resources that I find myself returning to time and time again.

[WishICouldWalk]

It's all interesting stuff. I find myself relying a lot on chromatic leading notes either above or below the root of the target chord. I think the problem with this approach is in bebop for example, where you've got loads of 2 chord bars, it can make the line a bit jumpy. When I listen to experienced jazz bassists, they seem to effortlessly weave very melodic lines through the harmony. The other thing is how they respond to 'out there' piano voicings. They just seem to be able to target the right notes to complement the piano. I think it's down to having a great ear and knowing the harmony of a tune so well that they don't even have to think about it. I've got a long way to go!

[Hector]

[quote name='WishICouldWalk' timestamp='1320574255' post='1428376']
It's all interesting stuff. I find myself relying a lot on chromatic leading notes either above or below the root of the target chord. I think the problem with this approach is in bebop for example, where you've got loads of 2 chord bars, it can make the line a bit jumpy. When I listen to experienced jazz bassists, they seem to effortlessly weave very melodic lines through the harmony. The other thing is how they respond to 'out there' piano voicings. They just seem to be able to target the right notes to complement the piano. I think it's down to having a great ear and knowing the harmony of a tune so well that they don't even have to think about it. I've got a long way to go!
[/quote]


You could try not playing roots on the first beat of a chord, and instead play another chord tone (3, 5, 7) or even a 9 or 11 (e.g. over a II-V bar of, say, Dm7 G7, play D C B G, as B is the 3rd of G). A nice way to think of these II-Vs with two chords to the bar is as just one chord, which can get you away from strict root playing. You can either think in terms of just the II chord, or just the V chord. In particular, the latter is very common, as (staying in the previous example in the key of C) playing a G over a Dm7 gives a lovely G7sus4 sound.

Have a play around, and see how it sounds to you, and try coming up with some lines that suit you and sound good to your ears. You'll find that not strictly sticking to the root motion will allow you a bit more freedom, and allows you to think in terms of the contour and direction of a line without just joining up the dots of the root motion and feeling all constricted. Like any other tool in your walking bass kit, make sure not to overuse it! Roots on the 1 will always sound good, and provide very strong harmonic support for the rest of the band.

Sorry I'm not a very good explainer, so let me know if this needs clarification/elaboration.

H

[WishICouldWalk]

What a great tip! All you have to do is play a scale up from the root of the 5 over the 2 chord, then by the time the 5 chord is being played, you're playing the 3rd of the 5 chord and hence getting away from both roots and having a much smoother sounding line. It's also something a relative newbie to jazz like me can just about get his head around while playing the changes. Brilliant!

[Hector]

Any time mate, pleased to share the love. Happy walking!

[ZMech]

Was just about to come and post something along the same lines as Hectors advice, but I think he's phrased it well enough. I remember when I first learnt that I didn't have to start each chord on the root, was just a whole other dimension of freedom. I do love hammering 9ths for a bar these days, possibly I'm just going through a phase

Edited November 6, 2011 by ZMech

[lobematt]

Thanks for all the tips! Quite like the 2-5 scale one. I've got my first jazz jam tomorrow, I'm hoping once I start jamming with other musicians rather than youtube backing tracks it will help me progress a bit quicker!

[chardbass]

My tip (esp for a jam where repeat choruses are likely) is to build the line.

All your tips and ideas should have some kind of chronology-

Roots and 5ths, half notes, quarter notes, using 3rds and 7ths, chromaticism etc.

Eventually you can delay or avoid using root notes and implying new harmony but if you "shoot your bolt" too soon and the soloist is on the 3rd of their 5 choruses you'll have nowhere to go.

Try to be guided by the soloist and the other band members too- respond to their playing and energy.

[lobematt]

So start simple basically?

[Bilbo]

The secret is to respond to the other players (not just the soloist but the drummer, piano player, anyone else etc) in an intelligent way, rhythmically, melodically or harmonically WITHOUT impeding the integrity of the walking line. The walk is the main skeleton of the piece, the interplay adds the colour. If in doubt, stay with the time.

I have listened to 100s of hours of Paul Chambers and the amount of time that he spends playing an absolutely straight 4 to the bar is remarkable. His fills account for a tiny percentage of his rhythm section playing (i.e. when he is not soloing). Also, unless I have missed it, PC never went above the octave G on the top string. I have seen pictures of him playing thumb position but never HEARD a single note of it.

[lobematt]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1321885339' post='1444026']
The secret is to respond to the other players (not just the soloist but the drummer, piano player, anyone else etc) in an intelligent way, rhythmically, melodically or harmonically WITHOUT impeding the integrity of the walking line. The walk is the main skeleton of the piece, the interplay adds the colour. If in doubt, stay with the time.

I have listened to 100s of hours of Paul Chambers and the amount of time that he spends playing an absolutely straight 4 to the bar is remarkable. His fills account for a tiny percentage of his rhythm section playing (i.e. when he is not soloing). Also, unless I have missed it, PC never went above the octave G on the top string. I have seen pictures of him playing thumb position but never HEARD a single note of it.
[/quote]

Wow thats pretty interesting. In my walking lines I almost always feel like I should be doing something more interesting (rhythmically or melodically) but when I actually transcribe some basslines from the greats I'm always surprised at how much of it is pretty "standard" but obviously just fits the song perfectly

[Bilbo]

It's an important lesson. The great players save their wizzy bits and used them cautiously, its us lightweights that are all over the place all of the time. The groove is King.

[derrenleepoole]

This is a great topic of discussion. Let the music do the talking and not the ego I guess

[2wheeler]

[quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1320063445' post='1421689']
When I'm playing my walking lines (which at the moment are fairly simple R37R or R35R type things) what is the best way to approach a bar with two chords in it? R - 5 for both? If it helps the tune I'm looking at is Autumn Leaves. Thanks!
[/quote]

The turn-around at the end of Autumn Leaves really lends itself to playing the thirds on beats 2 and 4. Don't feel obliged to keep walking here. If the soloist has peaked and is tailing off it can be better to go back to a 2 feel, either playing roots or the obvious chromatic line. Then you can either pick up walking on the last n beats before the repeat, or stay in 2 for a bit of variety.

[jakenewmanbass]

To continue Bilbo's sentiment, lots of great players will be faithful to the form and treat it simply initially, but there is an almost febrile energy developed in hearing masterful players keep it simple, I once saw Marc Johnson with Eliane Elias and he was massively grooving and playing very powerfully (and simply) harmonically, I asked him about that after the gig and he said in a trio setting it's important to play four and make the changes.
If you want to really have a keen sense of how you are doing, record yourself playing walking bass with no accompaniment, be brutal in asking yourself whether you can hear the changes happening from you lines alone... if you can, great, but work to do more of it without repeating yourself, if not, work on making that happen. Combine listening to great examples (and learning to play them) with doing exercises that take you through standard changes eg II V I, I VI II V blues, rhythm changes well known standards etc etc

Whenever I record what I'm doing (and I'm lucky enough to do that quite a bit and often as a job) I always start out with putting ideas in and then stripping it out and going in the direction of more and more simple. In my sensibilities it's then that the music starts to happen.

Edited November 29, 2011 by jakesbass

[lobematt]

Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a go recording my lines and see how it sounds. I've started jamming with a guitarist and we recorded our last jam and that was helpful to listen back to for the improvising etc but recording solo basslines sounds like a good idea too!

[Faithless]

Don't know if you've spotted that, but on Tuesday fellow BC member and a fabulous teacher Joe Hubbard presented his new book on "Walking Basslines:Demistyfing the Creative Process".

It's a very sophiscicated book, focusing on primarily harmonic outlines of walking lines, where you can really hear the changes in your lines, and imposing different lines creation devices.

If you want to really deepen your knowledge in this subject, I highly recommend getting that book - it's pretty much all you really need to get solid in this, of course, unless you want to pick a lesson with the man himself...

[lobematt]

Yeah I did spot it but I'm a bit short on funds and it's only an ebook isn't it? I try and get as much free advice from here as I can and I keep an eye out on amazon for cheap used books! Thanks for the heads up anyways

[Faithless]

Well, yeah it's an eBook, but nonetheless good. The good thing about it is that you don't need to wait for postman and you may bring it with yourself everywhere in your laptop.

There was a discount offer, but it's ended by Dec 1, anyway if I were you I'd still save a few bucks (it's 15 pounds total) and get it as fast as I could - you can't really learn this sort of stuff just by catching random advice (even if it's good) or getting some random book, because there's loads of sh*t out there - there must be a systematic approach to this, from A to Z.


easy
Laimis

Edited December 3, 2011 by Faithless