Reality check. New practice regime.

[leschirons]

This is not intended to be one of those lack of confidence posts. It's just that something occured to me over the weekend. I got a good gig last Friday opening the guitar festival here in France. Gig went well, great money and good reviews / feedback etc. Rock / blues trio doing covers.

Since living here, I've had no shortage of offers to play in bands, do loads of deps etc and always seem to be playing but on the last night of the festival, I went to see Jennifer Batten. She was supporting the Michael Jones group. He's the ex guitarist for Jean Jacques Goldman and to be honest, I'd never heard of them.

Anyway, I was watching the bassisit for the whole set. He made it all look so easy. Didn't play anything flash or outlandish, classy and subtle basslines and totally nailed it. Minimum movement on the fretboard and was so tight with the drummer you couldn't get a Rizla between them. Made me realise that I'd really got complacent.

For the last 8 years, I've assumed I was an average to good bassplayer but watching this other player made me realise that I've not moved forward as a musician and just sat on my arse and now, have a serious amount of work ahead of me if I'm going to be satisfied with my playing.

Big fish in little pond syndrome? Guilty.

Edited November 1, 2011 by leschirons

[Len_derby]

I think really it's hats off to you for recognising this.
Sometimes it takes a jolt and a reality check for us get the push to improve.
It might feel a bit uncomfortable, but you wouldn't really want to be one of those smug gits who think they've got it all nailed would you?
I'm sure you're being hyper-critical of yourself too.

A last thought. Those classy and subtle basslines he was playing. Have you considered that maybe he didn't compose them?

[lanark]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1320178706' post='1423492']
This is not intended to be one of those lack of confidence posts. It's just that something occured to me over the weekend. I got a good gig last Friday opening the guitar festival here in France. Gig went well, great money and good reviews / feedback etc. Rock / blues trio doing covers.

Since living here, I've had no shortage of offers to play in bands, do loads of deps etc and always seem to be playing but on the last night of the festival, I went to see Jennifer Batten. She was supporting the Michael Jones group. He's the ex guitarist for Jean Jacques Goldman and to be honest, I'd never heard of them.

Anyway, I was watching the bassisit for the whole set. He made it all look so easy. Didn't play anything flash or outlandish, classy and subtle basslines and totally nailed it. Minimum movement on the fretboard and was so tight with the drummer you couldn't get a Rizla between them. Made me realise that I'd really got complacent.

For the last 8 years, I've assumed I was an average to good bassplayer but watching this other player made me realise that I've not moved forward as a musician and just sat on my arse and now, have a serious amount of work ahead of me if I'm going to be satisfied with my playing.

Big fish in little pond syndrome? Guilty.
[/quote]

So what's going to be your new practice regime?

[leschirons]

Now dedicated to a minimum of 2 hours playing every day hook or by crook, get more theory under my belt and try and seriously improve my crap fretless intonation. May also consider taking up lessons again if I can find someone good within about 50kms.

[TheRev]

I often feel exactly the same. I go to a gig, watch someone 15 years younger pull off an effortless gig with some amazing playing and making me feel like a bit of a faker, despite playing 2-3 gigs a week and having more dep offers than I could ever fit into the 52 weeks in a year.

Then I remember just how far I've come in my 20+ years of playing, how the busiest bassists are the guys who keep it simple and get the job done, how I'm playing much more and much better and in more diverse styles that I ever have before. If that doesn't work, I try to remember how may people have come up to me at the end of a gig to compliment the band, my playing, or both. The chances are that the player who impessed me would be impressed by my gigs - you know your stuff better than anyone so you see the minor flaws in your playing whereas an audience member (bassist or regular normal person) just sees the song.

It's good to be humbled occasionally and it's good to be able to recognise and work on the weaker points of your playing but don't beat yourself up about it. I bet if he guy you watched came to one of your gigs, he'd be impressed by your playing. It's all relative.

[leschirons]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1320185607' post='1423632']
I think really it's hats off to you for recognising this.
Sometimes it takes a jolt and a reality check for us get the push to improve.
It might feel a bit uncomfortable, but you wouldn't really want to be one of those smug gits who think they've got it all nailed would you?
I'm sure you're being hyper-critical of yourself too.

A last thought. Those classy and subtle basslines he was playing. Have you considered that maybe he didn't compose them?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I was (albeit not a smug git, that's not me) turning into someone who thought that they had it nailed but now realise that I was possibly getting gigs as I sing sans French accent or have a rehearsal studio in the barn.

Of course, your quite possibly dead right about his basslines not being his but they were all executed to a standard that made me really look at my own ability (or lack of)

Thing is, I've found it very easy to become the greatest bassplayer around where 98% of the population are cows and sheep.

I really believe no-one can improve unless they are a bit critical of their own ability. Yes, you can go overboard but I don't think I have. It's been a good, overdue kick up the backside. Moreso because it wasn't Victor Wooten or Marcus Miller that I'd been watching. Just some guy that had bothered put the hours in.

[leschirons]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1320187450' post='1423667']
I often feel exactly the same. I go to a gig, watch someone 15 years younger pull off an effortless gig with some amazing playing and making me feel like a bit of a faker, despite playing 2-3 gigs a week and having more dep offers than I could ever fit into the 52 weeks in a year.

Then I remember just how far I've come in my 20+ years of playing, how the busiest bassists are the guys who keep it simple and get the job done, how I'm playing much more and much better and in more diverse styles that I ever have before. If that doesn't work, I try to remember how may people have come up to me at the end of a gig to compliment the band, my playing, or both. The chances are that the player who impessed me would be impressed by my gigs - you know your stuff better than anyone so you see the minor flaws in your playing whereas an audience member (bassist or regular normal person) just sees the song.

It's good to be humbled occasionally and it's good to be able to recognise and work on the weaker points of your playing but don't beat yourself up about it. I bet if he guy you watched came to one of your gigs, he'd be impressed by your playing. It's all relative.
[/quote]

You've made some really relavent points here and it's easy to forget what you have accomplished in the years of playing but it's no excuse for me to have sat back and been lazy which is what's happened

[Wylie]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1320188113' post='1423676']I really believe no-one can improve unless they are a bit critical of their own ability. Yes, you can go overboard but I don't think I have. It's been a good, overdue kick up the backside. Moreso because it wasn't Victor Wooten or Marcus Miller that I'd been watching. Just some guy that had bothered put the hours in.[/quote]

I listened recently to an old-style soul number by Solomon Burke, 'You're Not Alone,' and the bass was solid, moving (as in motion), economical, varied, and did I say solid? Rock solid. Just a Bb blues progression, nothing fancy, three chords and a passing Eb, but what struck me was the ease with which the player made the changes. I practice daily, and I am a slow learner. It's frustrating. But I do make progress.

[SirChewey]

I'm having a realisation at the moment too, you're not alone. I'm in need of brushing up on my theory and putting it into practice. I have a tendency to get a little busy and overcomplicate things when we have a good jam, and some of our jams exceed 30 mins and go through a whole sea of changes. I think by brushing up a little, I'll be able to create some more interesting simple changes to my technique and be able to write a load better on the fly. As a power trio, it's difficult sometimes to have a solid reference point especially through guitar solos and areas of 'atmosphere', I can't afford to stick to my comfort zones so this realisation is somewhat daunting. I only hope that I can break some habits I know I have and hope I don't discover too many more in the process lol

Good luck on your technical journey my friend

[Gilby]

I recently bought the rush documentary DVD and was really surprised that Neil Peart decided he needed lessons despite being in the band for twenty years! (this was in 1994, he would of been 42). Just goes to show that despite being rated as one of the best in the game there is always improvements to be made. (if you watch earlier/later performances you can see a big difference in his actual style of playing).

[leschirons]

[quote name='Gilby' timestamp='1320269347' post='1424724']
I recently bought the rush documentary DVD and was really surprised that Neil Peart decided he needed lessons despite being in the band for twenty years! (this was in 1994, he would of been 42). Just goes to show that despite being rated as one of the best in the game there is always improvements to be made. (if you watch earlier/later performances you can see a big difference in his actual style of playing).
[/quote]
Never knew that. I wonder who someone like Neil Peart actually goes to for lessons!!

[SirChewey]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1320273821' post='1424820']
Never knew that. I wonder who someone like Neil Peart actually goes to for lessons!!
[/quote]
I think it was a chap named Freddy Gruber. I know Peart went back to basics like 'How to hit a drum'; I believe Gruber told im to only use that drum and nothing else for a while and did the same with the rest of his kit slowly introducing other parts. Although a slightly odd concept, I suppose it forces shape and feel of sound. It's like saying give us a bass solo over this II-V-I only using the note G. You soon learn to do something a little more interesting than if you had the whole bass to choose from; less is sometimes more.

[Gilby]

That's the guy. Passed away last month at the age of 84.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='SirChewey' timestamp='1320298330' post='1424937'] I think it was a chap named Freddy Gruber. I know Peart went back to basics like 'How to hit a drum'; I believe Gruber told im to only use that drum and nothing else for a while and did the same with the rest of his kit slowly introducing other parts. Although a slightly odd concept, I suppose it forces shape and feel of sound. It's like saying give us a bass solo over this II-V-I only using the note G. You soon learn to do something a little more interesting than if you had the whole bass to choose from; less is sometimes more.[/quote]

Stewart Copeland said a similar thing, when he has an "off" day he'll put a metronome on and play the simplest beat and focus on locking in to the click and making it groove. No fills, no variations, no accents but just focussing on getting the most feel out of playing the minimum. Eventually he said he ends up in a kind of a trance and turns his "off" day into something constructive.

I've tried the same technique on bass and it seems to help.

[AntLockyer]

The majority of my drum practice was spent on a practice pad playing rudiments to a metronome at all speeds. It's amazing how hard just hitting left/right/left/right is at 60 bpm for 10 minutes.

[Doddy]

[quote name='SirChewey' timestamp='1320298330' post='1424937']
I think it was a chap named Freddy Gruber. [/quote]
Dave Weckl and Steve Smith also went to Gruber within the last few years.
Over the last couple of years,Peart has been studying with Peter Erskine.

You'd be surprised at how many well known drummers have gone back to study,
usually with great teachers like Jim Chapin or Fred Gruber.

[Balcro]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1320178706' post='1423492']
Since living here, I've had no shortage of offers to play in bands, do loads of deps etc and always seem to be playing but on the last night of the festival, I went to see Jennifer Batten. She was supporting the Michael Jones group. He's the ex guitarist for Jean Jacques Goldman and to be honest, I'd never heard of them.

Anyway, I was watching the bassisit for the whole set. He made it all look so easy. Didn't play anything flash or outlandish, classy and subtle basslines and totally nailed it. Minimum movement on the fretboard and was so tight with the drummer you couldn't get a Rizla between them. Made me realise that I'd really got complacent.

For the last 8 years, I've assumed I was an average to good bassplayer but watching this other player made me realise that I've not moved forward as a musician and just sat on my arse and now, have a serious amount of work ahead of me if I'm going to be satisfied with my playing.
[/quote]


I'm with TheRevs last paragraph on this -

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][size=4][i]"It's good to be humbled occasionally and it's good to be able to recognise and work on the
weaker points of your playing but don't beat yourself up about it. I bet if he guy you watched came to one of your gigs, he'd be impressed by your playing. It's all relative."[/i][/size][/font]

I've remember watching a young bass player in a nationwide touring pop/rock show and he did exactly the same. Immaculate straight fingers technique (how I wish I had fingers that long) but surprisingly little movement on the fretboard. Everything sounded spot on with the drummer(s).

Then I fell in. The lines sounded really good. As you say, nothing flashy,but he'd probably economised on perfect originality. It's a brave musician who produces 30+ bass lines in one evening.

Balcro

[phatkat]

Im in an odd place at the moment as well, I didnt start playing anything seriously till I was 40, I had played guitar for years before ever playing in a band but soon moved to bass because the usual... lack of a bass player. Soon got to love it.
I've played in a few bands for fun for years doing the odd gig, problem now is that we have changed singer/guitarist for the umpteenth time and this guy has been there and done that... my problem is that without a proper grounding in bass and lack of technique, im finding it quite hard to keep up with new material. Dont get me wrong, i'm really loving the pressure but dont want to hold these guys back... would lessons benefit a set in his ways 56yr old?

G...

[leschirons]

[quote name='phatkat' timestamp='1320348296' post='1425746']
Im in an odd place at the moment as well, I didnt start playing anything seriously till I was 40, I had played guitar for years before ever playing in a band but soon moved to bass because the usual... lack of a bass player. Soon got to love it.
I've played in a few bands for fun for years doing the odd gig, problem now is that we have changed singer/guitarist for the umpteenth time and this guy has been there and done that... my problem is that without a proper grounding in bass and lack of technique, im finding it quite hard to keep up with new material. Dont get me wrong, i'm really loving the pressure but dont want to hold these guys back... would lessons benefit a set in his ways 56yr old?

G...
[/quote]
Re your last line of the reply, yes they would. None of us stop learning and improving, if we have a mind to do so. Go for it.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='phatkat' timestamp='1320348296' post='1425746']
Im in an odd place at the moment as well, I didnt start playing anything seriously till I was 40, I had played guitar for years before ever playing in a band but soon moved to bass because the usual... lack of a bass player. Soon got to love it.
I've played in a few bands for fun for years doing the odd gig, problem now is that we have changed singer/guitarist for the umpteenth time and this guy has been there and done that... my problem is that without a proper grounding in bass and lack of technique, im finding it quite hard to keep up with new material. Dont get me wrong, i'm really loving the pressure but dont want to hold these guys back... would lessons benefit a set in his ways 56yr old?

G...
[/quote]

You're never too old to learn - I did a Jamey Aebersold Summer School in Richmond in 2003 & two of the bass players were OAP's! If anyone tells you you're too old, tell 'em to go & sit in the road & play with the traffic.....

[Faithless]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1320324831' post='1425287']
Dave Weckl and Steve Smith also went to Gruber within the last few years.
Over the last couple of years,Peart has been studying with Peter Erskine.

You'd be surprised at how many well known drummers have gone back to study,
usually with great teachers like Jim Chapin or Fred Gruber.
[/quote]

Well, some pro's didnt even have to 'go back' to study, because, they actually have never [i]stopped[/i] studying with their teachers - Mike Stern studied with Charlie Banacos from the days back in Berklee back to 2009, when Charlie died.

As for practicing, one thing that really struck a chord for me, was that quote from Banacos : "You will play the way you practice, no matter how you look at it".

Laimis

Edited November 4, 2011 by Faithless