The Dark Lord Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I'm not talking cheap copies. I can sort of understand that. I mean expensive "Super Jazz" and "Super Precisions". Why would any company make a bass guitar that looks identical to a Fender bass. Take Lakland and Sadowsky for two examples. I'm sure they make GREAT quality basses, but why do they make models which look almost identical to Fenders? Where is there pride? Why would anyone buy them? Why can't they use their own shapes? I have no issue with Stingrays - as they are a development of the Fender bass by the man himself. Similarly, but to a lesser extent, I can live with G&L basses looking the way they do. Although, I've gotta say they look less of a development and more of an ape. But other so called quality manufacturers? Why do they do it - and how can they get away with it? Do they pay a licencing fee. Look at Warwick. Great basses and there own shape. Why can't others do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They make them because people want them and will buy them. Lakland's first Fender copy was the Joe Osborne bass, which was an artist model made as a direct copy of Joe Osborne's 59 Jazz. Dan Lakin was a fan of Joe's playing and wanted to work with him. The same, I believe goes for the other Fender copies that Lakland make. They're copies of Bob Glaub's and Duck Dunn's precisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I didn't know there were so many varieties of canned worms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Look at what the majority of hero players are playing now and have been for the last 50 years. These designs are burned into our psyche... and the designs that fall outside of these standards by too much are considered niche and therefore obtain less of a market stronghold. Also on a practical level, Leo's designs are not too wacky, are actually very functional and fairly ergonomic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 MB1. "look at warwick great basses and there own shape?" Think Stuart Spector may have a few choice words for you on that issue?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1320251542' post='1424397'] I didn't know there were so many varieties of canned worms! [/quote] Well, you open Pandora's Box and out jump the Trojan Horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1320248309' post='1424341'] Look at Warwick. Great basses and there own shape. Why can't others do that? [/quote] Because then we'd be moaning at the number of Warwick copies on the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think it`s because Fender basses are both the first, and are also very successful. I can see where the question comes from, but copying an already successful item should also bring success, so it`s, as our over the water friends might say, a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 They also IMO do it better than what fender can. I think anyone now days would find it hard to design a guitar or bass that's radically different and practical and be successful to a large degree. The only new basses that are different but practical are the big al and bongo. Reverendguitar basses are also very nice ana departure from the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Fender's quality control went to sh*te for quite a few years. I think that just about covers it. If my precision is anything to go by they've improved beyond measure though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Undead Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='MB1' timestamp='1320252461' post='1424418'] MB1. "look at warwick great basses and there own shape?" Think Stuart Spector may have a few choice words for you on that issue?" [/quote] Fo shizzle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1320249092' post='1424359'] They make them because people want them and will buy them. [/quote] Yep, plain and simple....because people buy them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='MB1' timestamp='1320252461' post='1424418'] MB1. "look at warwick great basses and there own shape?" Think Stuart Spector may have a few choice words for you on that issue?" [/quote] or even Ned Steinberger..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222]Fender got the definitive 1 and 2 pickup designs right straight out of the box and trounced the competition, which didn't bother to compete at all. This meant that 99% of rock and roll, the music that is the foundation of most modern forms of music, was played on Fenders. So who would want to play anything else?[/color][/font][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222] [/color][/font][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color="#000000"]For the first 20 or so years Fenders were very expensive, which is why the cheap copies started being made. Fender then refused to provide upgrades that the customers wanted which enabled the replacement pickup and hardware market to gain a foothold. Fender then went through a long patch of bad QC and indifferent manufacturing standards which ultimately kick started the whole high end instrument market, which Fender ignored when they decided to concentrate on the mass market. [/color][/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][/size][/font] [size=4][font=Arial][/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color="#000000"]Some of the studios had “house” basses which were mostly Precisions, because they could easily and quickly get the "right" sound. The sessions were fast, only 1 or 2 takes. In the NY session business a jingle used to be recorded in 20 mins, so anyone turning up with a different bass would take longer to set up and wouldn't get the “right” sound. They wouldn’t get asked back so session players who wanted to work had to bring a Fender. The NY session scene was where Roger Sadowsky started. [/color][/font][/size] [font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222] [/color][/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222][size=2][/size][/color][/font] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222]Fender didn't copyright the shapes of its basses so direct copies could be made. I believe they did copyright the head shape, so that's why we see so many different head designs.[/color][/font][/size] [color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222] [/color][/font][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222]Lakland’s most successful designs are their own, the **-94, **-01 and **-02 basses are not Fender copies.[/color][/font][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#222222] [/color][/font][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color="#000000"]Warwick[/color][/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][size=4][color="#000000"][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]’s most popular bass, while not a Fender shape is a (probably licensed) copy of a Spectre. So they aren’t that original either. [/font][/color][/size][color="#000000"][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Because other companies can offer more than Fender can, and people prefer that. These so called Super J's/P's are called super for a reason. They see that people want more than Fender can offer in terms of features, so they jump on this and cater to that quite high-end market. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [color=#ff0000][size=8][font=comic sans ms,cursive][b]Well...WHY NOT [size=2]f.f.s.[/size]?[/b][/font][/size][/color] [size=8][font=comic sans ms,cursive][b][size=3]I haven't got a problem with that![/size][/b][/font][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Its a pretty similar story with most things. Vacuum Cleaners (most look like a Hoover - even the completely different Dyson). Why are all amps and cabinets basically black boxes? Why are all speakers round? The Fender shape works, pure and simple - ergonomically it is the best design for a bass guitar, proven by the fact it is still around. Even the Warwicks and dare I say BC Rich etc. are based on the original Leo Fender design in their own way - the horns might be a different shape but the principle is the same. The ones that aren't so clearly based on the Fender shape are famously the ones prone to neck dive (or neck pain!). The only significant difference apart form the choice of wood are those basses with thru necks (Rickenbacker came up with this one i think) but the form is not really that different... The most radical re-design I can think of was the Steinberger headless / bodyless (Hohner even copied that!) bass. How many of those do you see around these days? how many BC'ers have had one at some point and gone back to a Fender shaped bass? You do see copies of other makes but not so many because most people at some point realise that for all the fancy shapes and bells and whistles you can get the original Fender design gets you (and keeps you) the gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1320310519' post='1425024'] or even Ned Steinberger..... [/quote] or even Ned Steinberger..... MB1. "Yes! 'im too!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 They make them because they are better in a lot of cases and people want that. Fender had a down period and others jumped in You can say that Fender got it right very early on but then stood still TOO long. Maybe the quality took a hit...as many 70's basses might attest. Fenders are iconic so people just run with that template and there is room in the market. I thought Fender were very slow reacting to a better option to the plate bridge and active, for example... To some, a Fender is still THE bass, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1320324770' post='1425285'].... Maybe the quality took a hit...as many 70's basses might attest....[/quote] Luckily no one on BC landed one of those ones, they all seem to have bagged the exception to the rule... especially now they are vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1320248309' post='1424341']Take Lakland and Sadowsky for two examples. I'm sure they make GREAT quality basses, but why do they make models which look almost identical to Fenders? Where is there pride? Why would anyone buy them? Why can't they use their own shapes?[/quote] And there are the words of someone totally missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1320326856' post='1425332'] And there are the words of someone totally missing the point. [/quote] Yeah. You more like. How can I be missing the point of my own thread? There is no excuse, for example, for using an identical scratchplate to the fender brand, with pickups that are identical looking. Ric 4001s, 4003s etc are a good example of individual thinking. It's just so sad that these so called quality makers can't go the extra mile and stop copying someone else's designs. They could do all these advances in design, quality control, features etc without exactly copying someone elses designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1320325579' post='1425310'] Luckily no one on BC landed one of those ones, they all seem to have bagged the exception to the rule... especially now they are vintage. [/quote] Ha ha ... have to say my 70's Jazz was a total dog and pretty much the worst serious bass I ever owned. I don't find this unusual at all...as my mate had a 62 P bass which I thought was unplayable as far as I was concerned. Also..was harrangued at a gig recently with a guy picking up a early 70's P-bass for £500. I admit I would have been interested at that price, but it didn't play well. Never heard it though, and maybe I could have set-it up to work for me...but I would have kept it only to sell it later. I don't have this nostalgic feeling that a bass of a certain vintage is worthy. It may well be..and it just as easily may well not be. IMLE, of course.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1320325579' post='1425310'] ....Luckily no one on BC landed one of those ones.... [/quote] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]I did! [/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]I've posted this before; my 60's Precision was poorly made ****. Thanks Fender![/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Several key parts broke or wore out within the first 5 years, so I'm afraid I don't have an appreciating asset with that one even if most of it is vintage.[/font][/color][/size][font=Arial][size=2][size=4] [/size][/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1320327979' post='1425348'] There is no excuse, for example, for using an identical scratchplate to the fender brand, with pickups that are identical looking. [/quote] Those are just easily available stock parts that manufacturers use - in exactly the same way that car manufacturers use stock parts. [quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1320327979' post='1425348'] Ric 4001s, 4003s etc are a good example of individual thinking. [/quote] They are just an old design that was copyrighted (and vigorously defended) and therefore not copied to the same degree as the Fender body shape. [quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1320327979' post='1425348'] They could do all these advances in design, quality control, features etc without exactly copying someone elses designs. [/quote] I've tried out some 'other shape' basses over the years and I think the reality is that Leo Fender hit the nail on the head with the ergonomics of his body shape and the development of it too far from the original is going to lose that . Look at the basic idea of a car - 4 wheels on a chassis, people have tried to make a variation on that over the years and it's always turned out the same way - a complete flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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