G&L L2000 tone. Best cut-through set-up?

[solo4652]

Folks,

I have a USA G&L L2000 playing through a TC Classic 450/Barefaced Compact rig, and I'm slightly struggling to get the bass to cut through the mix in a band setting. I find my Fender P cuts through the mix more easily but I'd like to play the G&L because it has a more comfortable neck and action. Here's my typical G&L set-up which, try as I might seems just too rich, dark and thumpy:

G&L: Passive, front pick-up, non bass-boost (can't recall whether that's series or parrallel), Status half-wound strings, tone knobs at 3/4

Amp: Lowish gain, mid Spectracomp, lowish bass, both mids up above centre, treble up, tube emulator very low, volume on 3/4

Band: Pub-rock, 2 guitars, fairly loud, fairly unsubtle...

I'm keen to find a setup that means I can play the G&L rather than the Fender, but I'm struggling.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited November 2, 2011 by solo4652

[Machines]

Try completely rolling off the treble control (treble switch can stay on) - I find this seems to shift the mids (almost like a parametric EQ) making them much more apparent, especially using the neck pickup.

[Musicman20]

I must admit, despite my love for Rays and Jazz basses, the P just sits and can snarl in the mix with very little effort.

[solo4652]

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1320252261' post='1424409']
Try completely rolling off the treble control (treble switch can stay on) - I find this seems to shift the mids (almost like a parametric EQ) making them much more apparent, especially using the neck pickup.
[/quote]

Rolling off the treble control on the amp, do you mean?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1320252261' post='1424409']
Try completely rolling off the treble control (treble switch can stay on) - I find this seems to shift the mids (almost like a parametric EQ) making them much more apparent, especially using the neck pickup.
[/quote]


+1

Whilst at first I was a bit disappointed it didn't merely roll off high treble, the shift in mids made it very clear in the mix.

[mcnach]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1320255799' post='1424492']

Rolling off the treble control on the amp, do you mean?
[/quote]


I'm not 'machines' but I know what he was referring to (I hope, since I posted agreeing ) and in that case it's the treble control on the bass itself.

[solo4652]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1320258473' post='1424539']


I'm not 'machines' but I know what he was referring to (I hope, since I posted agreeing ) and in that case it's the treble control on the bass itself.
[/quote]


Ahh - right. I did wonder...

I've done a bit of digging and I found this thread on Talkbass: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/g-l-l2000-l2k-tone-controls-think-boost-not-cut-732606/"]http://www.talkbass....not-cut-732606/[/url]

In line with Machines and yourself, the suggestion seems to be to start with the controls at zero and gradually dial up.

Edited November 2, 2011 by solo4652

[mcnach]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1320259766' post='1424562']


Ahh - right. I did wonder...

I've done a bit of digging and I found this thread on Talkbass: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/g-l-l2000-l2k-tone-controls-think-boost-not-cut-732606/"]http://www.talkbass....not-cut-732606/[/url]

In line with Machines and yourself, the suggestion seems to be to start with the controls at zero and gradually dial up.
[/quote]


That's not what I used to do but you can always try that!

I normally had the bass nearly full, and the treble nearly full on. Then "adjusted to taste", usually on the treble only.
That bass has a lot of tonal options so it can be a bit distracting having all those bits to play with

[dub_junkie]

the non bass boost switch position you refer to will likely be parallel and the mids are more transparent on that setting. neck/passive/series should cut through more (it did from my experience with L2000/Asats) but the MFD pickups / tri-tone preamp combination is pretty dark sounding overall imo

[solo4652]

[quote name='dub_junkie' timestamp='1320310550' post='1425026']
the non bass boost switch position you refer to will likely be parallel and the mids are more transparent on that setting. neck/passive/series should cut through more (it did from my experience with L2000/Asats) but the MFD pickups / tri-tone preamp combination is pretty dark sounding overall imo
[/quote]


Thanks for your thoughts. looking at the user manual, the series switch position is described as "Bass boost" - is that what we want for more cut-through tone?

[Bassnut62]

i know it's not exactly what you're asking, but seeing as we're on the subject of these awesome basses........

if you want to remove a bit of the growl and get an all-round Fender-ish tone: try both pick ups on, no bass boost, passive with max on each knob. very nice tone there that seems to work in all settings.
I actually prefer these basses in passive mode, generally.

for more cut through, you might want to try bridge pup only, bass boost and active (but no treble boost); i've found that gives quite a crisp and well defined tone.

my main thought is don't give up on these great basses; it does take a while to get to grip swith so many tonal options, but once you've got them at your finger tips, you'll find this is a bass that can step up to the plate in just about any musical situation. Oh and, as you say, they are SOOOOO nice to play.

PS - Hello Dub Junkie - that Asat Special guitar is still getting plenty of love in these parts!

[solo4652]

[quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1320325366' post='1425307']
i know it's not exactly what you're asking, but seeing as we're on the subject of these awesome basses........

if you want to remove a bit of the growl and get an all-round Fender-ish tone: try both pick ups on, no bass boost, passive with max on each knob. very nice tone there that seems to work in all settings.
I actually prefer these basses in passive mode, generally.

for more cut through, you might want to try bridge pup only, bass boost and active (but no treble boost); i've found that gives quite a crisp and well defined tone.

my main thought is don't give up on these great basses; it does take a while to get to grip swith so many tonal options, but once you've got them at your finger tips, you'll find this is a bass that can step up to the plate in just about any musical situation. Oh and, as you say, they are SOOOOO nice to play.

PS - Hello Dub Junkie - that Asat Special guitar is still getting plenty of love in these parts!
[/quote]

OK - I'll get my rig out and have an experiment - thanks for your suggestions.

[Lozz196]

Not having used a GL, but having had active basses before (Yamaha BB, with p-type pickup), like Bassnut62 I also found that putting them in passive mode gave a lot more Precision-type cut in the mix.

[Bassmanb3]

Passive Mode, Series, Both Pickups, all 3 knobs cranked to max.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Bassmanb3' timestamp='1322494701' post='1451507']
Passive Mode, Series, Both Pickups, all 3 knobs cranked to max.
[/quote]

"both pickups on" is not exactly a recipe "to cut through" the mix...

[scalpy]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1322500653' post='1451639']
"both pickups on" is not exactly a recipe "to cut through" the mix...
[/quote]

Both pickups on will cut through the mix! However I have found when I use a modern amp, GB, EA and the like, bass cut takes too much away. Best to ramp all three knobs to max, bass boost on, stick it in active and to hell with anybody who gets in your way!

Edited November 28, 2011 by scalpy

[Graham]

Both pickups on is definetely the way to go with these, I used mine for both a covers band and a meoldic death metal band and used the following settings:

Covers:
Both pickups
Parallel (flicked over to series for the bass solo)
Passive
Treble slightly rolled off
Played with fingers

Metal:
Both pickups
Series
Active with treble boost
Bass slightly rolled off

The covers sound was a thick but still clear enough to cut tone and the metal tone was an absolutely monstorus, agressive tone that cut through by brute force.

Tbh, i don't really rate the sound of either pickup solo'd, they just sound like something's missing - the bridge sounds too thin and the neck too muddy, i used to switch over to just the bridge for Hysteria but found it sounded a bit cheap and nasty sounding. Together though they sound awesome

[solo4652]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1322504900' post='1451762']
Both pickups on will cut through the mix! However I have found when I use a modern amp, GB, EA and the like, bass cut takes too much away. Best to ramp all three knobs to max, bass boost on, stick it in active and to hell with anybody who gets in your way!
[/quote]

Won't that set-up remove the plaster from the ceiling?! I can make the G&L loud alright, but getting it to stand out alongside two guitars is proving quite hard.

[scalpy]

Ok I admit it'll do loud no problem, and it bangs right into all the head room available on the markbass head I'm currently using but I've never had a problem getting it to cut through. I use a fairly flat EQ, and nearly always find myself doing that regardless of the amp, although I use a fair bit of the filter shape on the head instead, the amp sounds more comfortable removing mids that way than using heavier EQ. I use full wound strings and play fingerstyle and have used the G&L in a variety of situations, with fire breathing drummers and filthy Marshall stacks, a pub rock dep gig the other week with one guy blazing away on a Boogie, 18 piece soul band, and less challenging, in the pit for Slipper and the Rose next week in Pershore! I'd really recommend leaving it in active at least and having a decent amount of middle dialled in, but I might play differently to you. Enjoy the bass though, not everyone loves them as much as I do as they seem to be an acquired taste, but once you've got it, that's another matter!

[mcnach]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1322504900' post='1451762']
Both pickups on will cut through the mix! However I have found when I use a modern amp, GB, EA and the like, bass cut takes too much away. Best to ramp all three knobs to max, bass boost on, stick it in active and to hell with anybody who gets in your way!
[/quote]

what I'm saying is that of the three options:
1) bridge
2) both
3) neck
number 2 (both) is the least able to cut through, being clearly scooped with regards to either pickup on its own. Beautiful fat sound, but the OP had trouble cutting through already so that's not exactly the first option that springs to mind. Not saying it will never work, of course two-pickups on does work in many contexts, but when someone says they have problems cutting through...

I owned an L2500 until very recently.

YMMV etc.

Edited November 29, 2011 by mcnach

[solo4652]

So, to summarise the discussion so far:

To get my L2000 to cut through in a fairly noisy band mix, I'll need to:

Use front pickup. Or bridge. Or both
Select active. Or passive
Series (or parrallel) pick up switching for bass boost. Or not.
Start with tone knobs on zero and slowly dial up. Alternatively, have both on max. Or possibly one up and one down
Use either roundwound or halfwound strings

[krazy_olie]

I find series has a lot more guts at the expense of "finesse".
Front pickup in series, passive with both tones up full is one of my favourites. Bit like a P bass on steroids.
Front pickup in parallel doesn't seem to do too much for my liking.
Both pickups in series is not as aggressive as a single pickup and is a bit more balanced, this is a good all rounder.
Both pickups in parallel a very very nice tone but maybe not the best for cutting through unless you doing all slappety stuff. Active works well with the .
Bridge pickup in series, can be a bit wild and to my ears has a massive bump in the spectrum somewhere, fiddling with the tone controls can yield anice super jazz kinda sound.
Bridge in parallel, sounds a touch thin, benefits from active bass boost.

The tone controls do different thigns whether in active/passive. I think in passive you usually want to have them on full, in active they become boosts so for a "flat sound" they need to be somewhere in the middle, but full on sounds pretty damned good!
rolling them off can give some interesting distinctive tones.

Just my experience really, ymmv as always. Personally passive/both pickups/series/full tone is my default setting.

[neepheid]

I'll wade in with my observation that in damn near every 2 pickup bass I've played, both pickups on tends to yield the most "polite" sound, rounded, smooth, not much of the "grit" needed to cut through a mix. It's like the two individual characters of the pickups cancel each other out rather than being summed or complementing each other. No, the pickups are not out of phase, there's plenty volume, it's just too smooth.




[quote name='krazy_olie' timestamp='1322563049' post='1452553']
The tone controls do different thigns whether in active/passive. I think in passive you usually want to have them on full, in active they become boosts so for a "flat sound" they need to be somewhere in the middle, but full on sounds pretty damned good!
rolling them off can give some interesting distinctive tones.
[/quote]

Your ears may be telling you that but may I be pedantic and correct you here - the tone controls do the same regardless of whether or not the preamp is switched on, they are passive, cut only controls in the circuit before the output from the pickups hits the preamp. This signal then either goes straight to the jack or through the preamp depending on the position of the passive/active/active w/treble boost switch. The preamp is simply a line boost, with an optional (and rather horrible sounding to my ears) treble boost facility, all of which happens after the tone controls.

[krazy_olie]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322566175' post='1452605']
I'll wade in with my observation that in damn near every 2 pickup bass I've played, both pickups on tends to yield the most "polite" sound, rounded, smooth, not much of the "grit" needed to cut through a mix. It's like the two individual characters of the pickups cancel each other out rather than being summed or complementing each other. No, the pickups are not out of phase, there's plenty volume, it's just too smooth.






Your ears may be telling you that but may I be pedantic and correct you here - the tone controls do the same regardless of whether or not the preamp is switched on, they are passive, cut only controls in the circuit before the output from the pickups hits the preamp. This signal then either goes straight to the jack or through the preamp depending on the position of the passive/active/active w/treble boost switch. The preamp is simply a line boost, with an optional (and rather horrible sounding to my ears) treble boost facility, all of which happens after the tone controls.
[/quote]

I didn't know that, thanks! Kinda makes sense that i prefer it on full now

[solo4652]

Just to add further confusion, I have a USA L2000. In the past I've owned 2 Tributes and the USA model sounds darker and richer to me. It may be that settings that work on maple-boarded Tributes don't work so well on a rosewood-boarded USA model. Just a thought.