Some ideas needed

[bassbora]

So guys I am looking for suggestions and ideas for amps and cabs. A brief summary of my playing first maybe to give you guys better idea. I have been playing for 20 years now. I have been inactive for the last 9 years gigging wise but I am starting now again. I am subbing in a band and the guy is going to be away for a year. He has kindly let the band use his amp (Hartke HA3500 and transporter series 4*10 and 1*15 rig). That is fine and this is the amp I am currently using. The guy has indicated that when he comes back he is probably going to relocate and not going to be able to be with the band any more so this is most likely going to be permanent for me.

This is just a cover band and the gigs are in pubs and small local halls. So in few months I might need an amp when the guy comes back or who knows if he would want to sell the rig. Here is my dilemma, I am not very fond of this rig at all. I have read here before that the amps are fine but the cabs are the week point.

So my question is how powerful an amp do you guys think is needed and what kind of cabs? I have usually just used the amp that was available at the gig in the past and so I never really needed one so I dont really have much experience of amps. I have read plenty about them but never really had them myself.

The band is a 5 piece rock band with a loud drummer and one of the guitarist is very loud. I dont ever use any effects so I wont need any effects loop and I would usually go for clean-ish sound. I play Warwick basses (Thumb NT and FNA Jazzman) and they are 5 and 6 strings and I play mainly finger style.

I also have to take into consideration storage and transport so I have been thinking about size and weight of the rig. The Barefaced cabs sound like they would be the right thing and the Super 12 is then one I am thinking of but I dont know if that would be an over kill for pubs.

I am also not sure what would be the appropriate amp for this setting and my style. EBS 350, TC Electronic (not sure which one would be enough or not too much) or possibly SWR.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys.

Edited November 8, 2011 by bassbora

[xgsjx]

I think you're going down the right route by looking at Barefaced. If I ever replace my combo, then I'd seriously consider BF.

Ampwise, I'd take a look at Markbass. There's a good selection on here for bargain prices, from LMIIs to LM Tubes & a good selection of others.
Also worth a look are GenzBenz, TC electronic & EA for small lightweight heads.

If you're near Dunblane at all this coming Saturday, PM me & you can try my MB combo & see if it gives you any ideas.

[stingrayPete1977]

Bass Direct has some great deals on Genz Benz gear, He is doing my rig (2x12 and Shuttle 6.0) but with the 900watt head for £1349 I think including a man bag for the head to take the head to practice with the cabs available. Everyone else is after the Streamliner 900 but for cleanish sounds you will probably prefer the Shuttle 9.0 like me.
Totally unbiased view obviously

[chris_b]

[size=4]The Super 12 won't be "over kill for pubs" because you have a volume control. You don't want to be thrashing the speakers so you'll need "headroom".[/size]

[size=4]Alex rates his 212 as a 410 killer so I'd think about one for use in a loud rock band. Paired up with a 500 watt amp, you'll be able to cover any gig.[/size]

[Mr. Foxen]

Is tempting to be really loud because you can. Have seen/heard it happen with a super 12, in a no PA support gig. Pretty funny, dude was obviously fairly experienced bassist from loud sorts of bands and the concept of bass being too loud and overpowering everything else was obviously new territory.

[Lozz196]

Agree with Barefaced in the speaker domain, being an owner of both a Compact and a Midget. Very portable, great sounds.

Ampwise, depends on the sound - and budget. Based on what you`ve put, TC Electronic - I had a Classic 450, very good amp, very versatile. Also check out Markbass, possibly Genz Benz.

Lastly, The Bass Merchant are closing the end of this month, so have a look at their website, or give them a call. They are incredibly helpful, and should have some bargains. They`ll be able to recommend something suitable.

[JTUK]

Although IME, 2x12 is not a 410 killer in a general sense. It may cope with the volume element well enough but my 2x210 or a 410 cabs are way pokier throughout the range in terms of projection and clarity than
12's.
You can hump the 12's if you like..but at the expense of another frequency, IMO...so it is very much a case of horses for courses.
Some people will get a result out of this and like it..others will not and I am in the latter camp so far.

All cabs are compromises, IMV so find out which ones you can live with.

[dmccombe7]

I'm playing in a 5 piece classic rock band with a GB streamliner 600 and 2 Berg 1x12" cabs.
The band have stated on several occasions that my own rig is far superior to any other set up I've used.
That is in comparison to Ampeg 8x10 cabs with Ashdown ABM 500 or EBS 350 head.
Sound is punchier and overall tone is far more even. Although it is punchier it still has more than enough depth.

Settings are usually flat with very minor tweaking if at all. I do cut back on the horns approx -25% as they can be quite cutting when run flat.

Very portable cabs - one in each hand easily and amp comes with a bag and shoulder strap. I can literally carry my full rig in one run from car to venue.

GB head being tube pre-amp has that nice warm sound.

Bass Direct did me a great deal so worth talking to Mark who came across as honest and genuine enough to talk me down from a 900 head because he didn't feel i would need it. He's bang on as amp never runs past half master volume.

I'm extremely please with this rig.

I've heard some worrying reports on EBS heads recently especially the 350. Apparently there is only one repair shop in UK and they aren't cheap. I did find the amp a little clinical sounding but otherwise i actually quite liked it.

Dave

Edited November 9, 2011 by dmccombe7

[jonunders]

Hi, I have a Barefaced Super Twelve T which I use with a Mark bass LM111. I couldn't ask for any more from my rig, awsome. Jonathan

Edited November 10, 2011 by jonunders

[Lozz196]

I`m not picking holes in the above post, but I get exactly the same from my Barefaced Compact & Midget that I got from my previous array of much heavier cabs. If I didn`t, I would point it out. I wouldn`t be worried about looking daft, and if I didn`t like it, would review it honestly, stating how it wasn`t suitable. But it is - for me.

I do think anyone used to using a 410 & 115 stack, going to a single BF cab would notice the difference. But, if coming from a single 410, 115, or 412 to a BF combination - Compact & Midget for example, or a Super 12 - well performance wise I can`t see many not being completely satisfied. And once you carry the cabs to the car - well try and stop grinning!

[JTUK]

[quote name='bass_by_name' timestamp='1320885854' post='1432899']
Volume is not measured in watts.

Beware of the Barefaced bubble on here, nobody who has ponied up their hard earned is going to say they are sh*t on a forum that thinks the sun shines out of a Barefaced arse.

If I was buying a new rig I would look carefully at 2x1x12's, a 2x12 or 2x2x10's for a modular rig. Watts sells to bass players who are too stupid to understand the first point in this post, hence the number of very powerful heads on the market. However, if you like a clean sound, more watts is better.
[/quote]

I'll go with this.

It should be relatively easy to get a useable amp...
Markbass are one. I would look at Genz as well, if I were you...even TC, altho I would pair them with their cab package, IMO.

Cabs are more of a problem as you have power, weight and carry concerns.

410 are still the cab to beat, IMO..but they are lumpy old beasts, by and large and even if they aren't that heavy..in some cases, they can therefore still be an awkward lift.

If this is not a problem.or fitting it in the car..this would be result one. IMV
Some people get round this with 2x210...as do I..as this is a lighter easier carry still getting the same sort of cab config.
You might want to A/B your choice of cabs in these two configs at a decent volume to see any differences as the cab size of 410 may or may not equal 2x210... but there you go

Lots of guys also run 2 12'...as the 12 has rather taken over from the 15 as a bass speaker.
I don't think you loose anything down low going down this route but you wont get the clarity of a 10, IMO.
Cabs makers might try and do this with reasonable success by making the 12 cab more mid biased and this is a reasonable approach, IMV.
This gives two 12's cabs paired together, mobility, light individual carry at a max of around 45lbs per cab and a very powerful bass set-up..capable of handling 600 watts or so with the two cabs.

People may prefer this to 212 as these can be a big cab and weigh 60 plus lbs.

There are lighterweight options of these with NEO 12" chassis which might cut the weight down to closer to half that... but you still have to fit it in the car.
If that is not a problem, then 212 come into the equation.

To find what YOU like ..as opposed to what works for us...as we have had to do the same sort of research, I'd imagine, you are going to put in some groundwork.

What I will say is that an amp of 500w does not need to have to drive a 410 and 115 in a pub or small club,
I think one or other of those cabs might suit some...but not both.

Personally, I think the 15" is finished as a bass driver with the options around today in 90% or so of uses for a bass player...but I doubt that would be a popular view here.
The trend is modular and compact and preferably lighter.

[Phil Starr]

If you are in a covers band playing pubs, like a clean sound, and storage is a problem then take a look at AER's amp one. It's a tiny combo and it achieves a remarkable sound by the equivalent of an optical illusion (auditory illusion?) It compresses the bass end of your signal to reduce the demands on it's little speaker. At the same time this makes the bass sound louder and more 'in your face'. Compression is why the ads on telly sound louder than the programs. It also cleans up your sound. Because of the way our brains and ears work we can't really hear that this isn't genuine loud bass.

Honestly I wouldn't have said this until I heard these things at gigs but the little so and so's work really well and if you are the sort of player that just likes to plug in and play then they are unbelievable. You'll love them or hate them but you really should have a look.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='bass_by_name' timestamp='1320885854' post='1432899']
Beware of the Barefaced bubble on here, nobody who has ponied up their hard earned is going to say they are sh*t on a forum that thinks the sun shines out of a Barefaced arse.
[/quote]

Apart from the people who have, like this guy:
http://basschat.co.uk/topic/70650-barefaced-tvintage-review/page__hl__barefaced%20vintage%20review

There's also other posts where people who have bought Barefaced haven't found them to their liking. Alex does have a return period so there's no pressure to keep a cab you don't like either.

Amazing that after 48 posts you have such a comprehensive understanding of the forum, it must have taken you ages trawling through those old threads from before you joined!

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1320801247' post='1431732']
Is tempting to be really loud because you can. Have seen/heard it happen with a super 12, in a no PA support gig. Pretty funny, dude was obviously fairly experienced bassist from loud sorts of bands and the concept of bass being too loud and overpowering everything else was obviously new territory.
[/quote]

Could be that he just underestimated the ability of the cab to project the sound out front.

[Paul S]

I play in 2 covers bands - one is light pop rock stuff, the other heavy classic rock - in pubs and small halls. Both are 2 x guitars, drums bass. I use a Barefaced compact on it's own with a TC Electronic Classic 450 - this rig is more than adequate, loads of headroom, beautiful clarity of sound. I went from a 'classic' Trace Elliot rig to this and prefer it in pretty well every way. Especially putting it in the boot.

A slight finesse might be adding a Midget but I am pleased enough as is. Probably the only change I would make is swapping the Classic 450 for the RH450 so I could use the presets accessed via the footswitch.

[The Dark Lord]

Go TC Electronic - the 1 x 12 RS112 (for smaller gigs) and a the 2 x 10 RS210 too for larger gigs. Portable, top notch build quality, great looking. In my opinion, no better sounding speakers on the market. Mid - high range price points, but what the hell.

[bassbora]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1320789743' post='1431568']
If you're near Dunblane at all this coming Saturday, PM me & you can try my MB combo & see if it gives you any ideas.
[/quote]

Thanks for all your suggestions and offer to come and try out. I am not close to Dunblane on Sat so I have to decline but thanks much the same.

I had not thought about GB at all. I used to read BassPlayer back in the 90s and read all the amp reviews and I dont remember GB back then so I had not considered that option.

After this I think I would go for Barefaced + 400 to 500 W head.

How are the SWR heads these days? I remember back in the 90s when SM400 was the thing to have. Have they suffered with quality like I have seen people here mention about Ampeg? I was looking into Amplite and Headlite amps and was wandering if they are worth a consideration. Same for the Gallien Krueger amps. Was also looking at the MB500.

Cheers guys for all your input I really appreciated it.

[JTUK]

[sup]The SWR400 is still a good amp... and an old one will be superbly made.[/sup]
[sup]On the early[/sup][sup] ones don't use the bass control past 12 as it was very sub which sucked power from the output...and pretty unusable. The EQ[/sup]
[sup]takes some getting used to...but VERY capable.[/sup]

[sup]I don't consider the amps that followed them to be in that league, myself, SWR-wise,[/sup]

[Lozz196]

If you`re going to go Barefaced, apparently there is a deal on Compacts at the moment - basschat thread below:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/160122-barefaced-compacts-on-offer/