silverfoxnik Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hi Folks, Has anyone got any experience of how best to use 2 rigs at the same time? I want to use my H&K head & SWR cab for my pure bass sound and another, slightly smaller rig just to handle FX sounds. What could the potential problems be other than money (obviously) and having to carry around so much gear? I'm thinking in terms of how to drive two rigs - would I need something like a Boss LS2 - and also, problems with having similar or different speakers in the 2 rigs, speaker placement etc, etc.. In my head, it all sounds great but I'm sure it's not that easy... Is it?? Thanks Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Just buy a Rickenbacker, Nik. Two outputs = two rigs. Alternatively, have your bass (one of the Roscoe Becks, I assume) re-wired to give you two outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmohajer1 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) I've done similar things using a BOSS chromatic tuner pedal, with the "bypass" signal running to your constant, dry amp, and then the other output (which is only activated by switching "off" the tuner) running to your other amp. This only gives the option of A / (A+B ) (i.e. adding in a second amp) so if you want to switch A / B between your two amps I guess you need a BOSS LS-2 or other A / B pedal. I guess it could be cool for experimental stuff, I'd really like to try it with two amps spaced, with the second one through a 100% wet delay. I've used it for a guitar into a single Sovtek MIG50 two input head, with just one input cleanish and then adding in the second preamp input (which is voiced differently) cranked giving an awesome natural overdrive. Edited November 9, 2011 by jonmohajer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I run Two rigs, either using line out from a Sansamp or one of my basses wired with separate outputs for the pickups. If you don't overlap frequency bands loads (liek a low one and a high one) then cancellation isn't much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Use an A/B switch. Works a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If your amp is like my Markbass, the effects loop is parallel, meaning that you get a blend of clean signal and whatever's in the effects loop. No way to control the ratio of clean:effected though. SFX make a pedal which will allow you to blend a clean signal with whatever effects you want, or switch them off altogether: http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=sm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The S&M unit by [sfx] is excellent ... but I don't think it will drive two separate rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You can get a Lehle Little Dual pedal, which enables using either amp, or both amps at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1320850273' post='1432238'] Just buy a Rickenbacker, Nik. Two outputs = two rigs. Alternatively, have your bass (one of the Roscoe Becks, I assume) re-wired to give you two outputs. [/quote] Funny enough Jack, my first real bass was a Rickenbacker with stereo 'rick-o-sound'... Yes, my main bass is still the Roscoe Beck V I got from you and it's doing me proud; absolutely lovely bass.. Thanks for the suggestions folks; i particularly like the idea of using the Boss Tuner to provide two outputs - very ingeneous indeed! The Little Dual pedal looks great but it's not cheap, so I may look for an alternative first..like the Boss Tuner. The cancellation issue does concern me Oli, so i'm wondering about getting that side of things right the most.. Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I wouldn`t worry about phase cancellation just yet. You can position your rigs to avoid that and can even reverse the phase on the input with a phase reversed cable or via a D.I or small desk with a phase reverse button. Suck it and see first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320882376' post='1432862'] The cancellation issue does concern me Oli, so i'm wondering about getting that side of things right the most.. [/quote] A high pass on one amp will sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks again folks.. My Hughes & Kettner Bassbase 600 has a blend control on the FX loop and I tried that but don't think it works as well as two seperate rigs.. More interestingly, the H&K also has a high pass control on the back which is variable, so i'll try that out at the weekend.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottle Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320850168' post='1432236'] Hi Folks, Has anyone got any experience of how best to use 2 rigs at the same time? I want to use my H&K head & SWR cab for my pure bass sound and another, slightly smaller rig just to handle FX sounds. What could the potential problems be other than money (obviously) and having to carry around so much gear? I'm thinking in terms of how to drive two rigs - would I need something like a Boss LS2 - and also, problems with having similar or different speakers in the 2 rigs, speaker placement etc, etc.. In my head, it all sounds great but I'm sure it's not that easy... Is it?? Thanks Nik [/quote] I've done all kinds of funny stuff with bass rigs - you've probably seen me trundle into the Bass Bash with one or two in my time Best rig I've got (had) is a 1x15 and a 4x10 and a pair of 12" PA cabs - three channels, head plus a stereo power amp. God, that could shift some air! Ran the 4x10 clean and full-range from my GK head (about 500w into 4-Ohms), with a two-band crossover feeding the stereo power-amp. One channel was the low-passed stuff from both input channels (input #1 was a direct line-out from the GK, input #2 was from the SansAmp in the Effects loop) feeding the 1x15, channel 2 on the amp was the high-passed output of the SansAmp only, into the pair of PA cabs. Sounded immense, but a little impractical hehehe Think there's a photo of my rig somewhere on BC the total power handling was about 1300w - silly territory If I was to use your rig, I would set up the H&K / SWR as your main (clean) bass sound then take a line out (the tuner out or Efx 'Send' is ideal for this) to run through your effects into a smaller rig (doesn't even have to be a bass rig either - several people on here use a guitar stack for effects, just high-pass stuff going to a guitar head). SansAmp or Big Muff type pedal (or rack mount etc) for the effects etc. BTW the bass big muff can be used as a signal splitter too, has a dry/clean output, as well as an effected output (with clean blend). HTH, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks Ian Brilliant..I love the sheer outrageousness of that rig !!! Did you have an Edie Stobbart account for shifting it around.... Hmm?? I have considered whether a 212 guitar combo might do the trick actually but was worried about whether one would have enough power..but if the frequencies are split as Oli and you say, then maybe that could work? Roll on the weekend when I can try some of this stuff out at volume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 2x12 is probably loads if you have the high passed out at 100-150hz, just gotta obey the rules of speaker placement, because without the undirectional lows, the mid beaming thing is going to be extra prominent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1320860723' post='1432466'] The S&M unit by [sfx] is excellent ... but I don't think it will drive two separate rigs. [/quote] It won't - I guess I got rather ahead of myself there in anticipating what Nik is trying to achieve. Personally I'm not sure whether the sound difference between having a blend through a single rig and a completely separate system would be (a) worth the trade-off in carting more gear and ( b ) noticeable in the context of a live gig. (Stupid blarsted editor, won't let me put ( followed by b followed by ) without spaces or it turns into some inane icon!) Edited November 10, 2011 by pete.young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Pete - that's a good question!!! And I'm not sure of the answer yet, to be honest... Though I hope to find out as I try more things out.. Such as, getting the speaker placement and the frequency split right etc, as Oli mentions above.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320940674' post='1433515'] I have considered whether a 212 guitar combo might do the trick actually but was worried about whether one would have enough power [/quote] I guess that depends on your 2x12 guitar combo - my Burman Pro 2000 will certainly give your H&K 600 a run for it's money volume-wise and might even be louder! Why not try taking a feed off your effects loop as Ian suggests and go into the PA via the effects unit(s)? That would get you out of carting another rig, and PAs work pretty well with full range signals like keyboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've no doubt it would Pete, so that could be a way to go.. The PA option would be less hassle and i have discussed that already with the other guys in the band.. But I'm about to start rehearsals with another band in the New Year and they only have a vocal PA, hence why I'm looking at being completely self-contained on this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='jonmohajer1' timestamp='1320851359' post='1432259'] I've done similar things using a BOSS chromatic tuner pedal, with the "bypass" signal running to your constant, dry amp, and then the other output (which is only activated by switching "off" the tuner) running to your other amp. This only gives the option of A / (A+B ) (i.e. adding in a second amp) so if you want to switch A / B between your two amps I guess you need a BOSS LS-2 or other A / B pedal. I guess it could be cool for experimental stuff, I'd really like to try it with two amps spaced, with the second one through a 100% wet delay. I've used it for a guitar into a single Sovtek MIG50 two input head, with just one input cleanish and then adding in the second preamp input (which is voiced differently) cranked giving an awesome natural overdrive. [/quote] That`s really helpful, as our guitarist wants to use two amps, one for his rhythm sound, then both for his soloes. We`ll try it out, nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Another question - do the FX run all the time, or do you switch them on and off? If the latter, there might be some volume issues (I am assuming here that the clean sound on it's own needs to be about as loud as clean plus FX). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Pete, The aim is to use some FX all the time and have the sensitivity set so that, depending on how much I dig in whilst playing, more or less FX can be heard.. My aim is for the FX to be like a permanent 'colour' or 'flavour' to the overall bass sound, but I can lose it when I want it.. Hope that explains it? Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I have tried running my GB Streamliner effects out to my Warwick head and into seperate cabs from both amps 15's, 12's and 10's You can feed the signal direct to the input of the warwick or to the effects IN which will allow both amps to be controlled from pre-volume on the GB amp provided you set both power amps volumes to a balance. I have also tried from my Roland GR6B board. Don't generally play with that set up - was only a trial. In past I've ran Peavey 400 W mkIV head i think from pre-amp out to a seperate power amp and again into a 2x10 & 1x15 cabs. That was pretty nice. Even borrowed a mates Peavey and used both heads into seperate cabs which in effect gives you 2 passive and 2 active circuits from 2 Peavey amps and you were able to mix these. Lot of time wasting in those days. Now i like my own GB & Berg rig the way it is. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottle Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320940674' post='1433515'] Thanks Ian Brilliant..I love the sheer outrageousness of that rig !!! Did you have an Edie Stobbart account for shifting it around.... [/quote] Naw, it all went into the back of my 1200cc VW Polo with the rear seats down - honest! [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320940674' post='1433515'] Hmm?? I have considered whether a 212 guitar combo might do the trick actually but was worried about whether one would have enough power..but if the frequencies are split as Oli and you say, then maybe that could work? Roll on the weekend when I can try some of this stuff out at volume [/quote] Sweet! That, of course, is another option - using a 212 Gtr combo, especially if that also has switchable clean and dirty channels, gives you more options. HTH, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottle Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1320947967' post='1433652'] Why not try taking a feed off your effects loop as Ian suggests and go into the PA via the effects unit(s)? That would get you out of carting another rig, and PAs work pretty well with full range signals like keyboards. [/quote] BTW, the 12" PA cabs were part of my personal bass rig, the church PA was a pair of EV sx300 full-range tops handling the vocal and keyboard duties LOL [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1320948312' post='1433664'] I've no doubt it would Pete, so that could be a way to go.. The PA option would be less hassle and i have discussed that already with the other guys in the band. [/quote] Might work, but possibly some fearsome phase cancellation issues if the PA cabs are some distance from your bass rig HTH, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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