Help me with my amp dilemma! Think I need a 2ohm amp but just bought a really nice Markbass 4ohm :(

[Mike]

Hi all,

I recently got sick of the sound of my TC Electronics RH450 and cabs (too digital/processed for me) so I picked up a Genz Benz NEOX 2x12 4ohm cab with the new Markbass Randy Jackson TTE500 amp. (4ohm).

Recently I've come to the conclusion that due to bigger gigs I need a larger sounding rig. I really like the EBS proline 2000 cabs and want a 1x15 & 2x10. The cabs are 4ohm each so I will need a head capable of 2ohm.

What are my options? I'm a bit clueless about amps and want something snappy, responsive and warm like my tube preamp markbass Randy Jackson.

I played a RH750 through these EBS cabs and was surprised to hear it sounded fantastic - better than my RH450 or so I thought!

Anyone got any suggestions?


Cheers!


Mike

[Merton]

What sort of gigs are you doing where a 500W 2x12 won't sound big enough?!

Eden maybe? Or sk8's Purple Chilli, same sort of vibe as the Markbass you have but 2 ohm capable

[Platypus]

not coming in with a hard sell or anything! though I have a Bergantino NV610 for sale, in mint condition
4 Ohm, tilt back with castors and sliding rails on back - would sound killer with that Randy Jackson.....

[stingrayPete1977]

IMO, IME etc etc them EBS cabs will have a more clynical sound than the TC ones you did not like? Even the Genz-Benz are a bit Hi-Fi too.

Also Oomph wise 1 2x10 - and 1 1x15 wont give you much or even any more than the big neox 2x12 either.

If you like the Genz cab but want more power and volume then adding another 2x12 with a suitable head like a Genz GBE 1200 or similar would be a killer kick ass vertical or horizontal 4x12 twin tweeter beast!!

[geoffbassist]

2 ohm heads. It's a tough one. I use 2x Euphonic Audio 12" 4ohm cabs so have the same problem.

Aguilar db750 is a tone monster, but of course very heavy.
Carvin do great value heads (some lightweight) which I've heard very good things about.
Hartke lh1000? Great value and Nate Watts uses one!
Some Eden heads?
Acoustic image Clarus. I use one but it's not amazing for electric due to limited eq, but amazing for upright.
Some genz Benz heads? The more powerful like 750 (not sure of models)
Euphonic Audio iamp 800&500

[warwickhunt]

How about a line out from your amp into a small digital power amp and you can have one amp driving each cab! It has the added bonus that it also gives you options for adding effects to one amp/cab and keeping the other dry. You retain the sound of the amp that you like... but louder.

[thodrik]

Have you thought about getting an EBS amp? It would be a good match for the cabs. Most of their heads go down to 2 ohms.

Or maybe even a stereo amp that can do 4 ohm a side? I think that Hartke LH1000 can do this and from my experience they work well with EBS cabs. Also in value for money terms I think they are best thing on the market.

Though, really if you are really happy with an amp that you just got, I wouldn't necessarily get rid of it on the basis that you 'need' EBS cabs. There are many great cab makers out there that would allow you to use the Markbass head. A Bergantino 4x12/6x10 would be pretty close to the top of my list.

Also I have been playing a 2x10 and 1x15 set up the last 3 years or so. It is really good, but I don't think it delivers as much volume as other set ups that have a similar stage footprint (ie a really good 6x10/4x12). Hardly lacking either though!

[Mike]

Thanks for the great responses all - one question: Is using two 4ohm cabs with a 2ohm head better/more powerful/headroom than using a 4ohm head with two 8 ohm cabs?



[quote name='geoffbassist' timestamp='1321311649' post='1437799']
2 ohm heads. It's a tough one. I use 2x Euphonic Audio 12" 4ohm cabs so have the same problem.

Aguilar db750 is a tone monster, but of course very heavy.
Carvin do great value heads (some lightweight) which I've heard very good things about.
Hartke lh1000? Great value and Nate Watts uses one!
Some Eden heads?
Acoustic image Clarus. I use one but it's not amazing for electric due to limited eq, but amazing for upright.
Some genz Benz heads? The more powerful like 750 (not sure of models)
Euphonic Audio iamp 800&500
[/quote]
Thanks Geoff - appreciate your time there. I'll check out those heads. Cheers!

[quote name='Platypus' timestamp='1321310365' post='1437767']
not coming in with a hard sell or anything! though I have a Bergantino NV610 for sale, in mint condition
4 Ohm, tilt back with castors and sliding rails on back - would sound killer with that Randy Jackson.....
[/quote]

Thanks but fairly sure that won't fit in my Saab 93 saloon!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1321310051' post='1437759']
What sort of gigs are you doing where a 500W 2x12 won't sound big enough?!

Eden maybe? Or sk8's Purple Chilli, same sort of vibe as the Markbass you have but 2 ohm capable
[/quote]

I have a 6500 seater venue to play in December, and hopefully a UK tour next year with hopefully two concerts at the Royal Albert Hall

Good call on the Chili, I'll check it out, thanks!


[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1321313447' post='1437835']
Have you thought about getting an EBS amp? It would be a good match for the cabs. Most of their heads go down to 2 ohms.

Or maybe even a stereo amp that can do 4 ohm a side? I think that Hartke LH1000 can do this and from my experience they work well with EBS cabs. Also in value for money terms I think they are best thing on the market.

Though, really if you are really happy with an amp that you just got, I wouldn't necessarily get rid of it on the basis that you 'need' EBS cabs. There are many great cab makers out there that would allow you to use the Markbass head. A Bergantino 4x12/6x10 would be pretty close to the top of my list.

Also I have been playing a 2x10 and 1x15 set up the last 3 years or so. It is really good, but I don't think it delivers as much volume as other set ups that have a similar stage footprint (ie a really good 6x10/4x12). Hardly lacking either though!
[/quote]

Thanks - good advice. I am looking at EBS heads. Interesting thought re. the 1x15 and 2x10 not having as much oomph. Why do you think this is? What about a 1x15 and 4x10?

[bertbass]

Add a power amp and extra speakers, go as load as you want!

[thodrik]

[quote name='Mike' timestamp='1321316432' post='1437868']

Thanks - good advice. I am looking at EBS heads. Interesting thought re. the 1x15 and 2x10 not having as much oomph. Why do you think this is? What about a 1x15 and 4x10?
[/quote]

To be honest I'm not sure it would be much better. A lot of people just generally advise to stay away from mixing speaker sizes, as it potentially leads phase cancellation. I'm not much for the finer points of technology and audio engineering but to my mind the danger of phase cancellation would be even worse with a 4x10 and a 1x15 than a 1x15 and a 2x10.

I used to be of the logic that 'big speakers do the low notes and small speakers do high notes'. While this has small level of logic, without running a crossover, what you are getting is a full signal going through both cabs. Apparently the results can vary massively (ie it can sound great or not very good at all). There are many people on this forum that have a better idea than I do on what I am trying to say. In general the advice seems to be 'if you like the sound of a cabinet, the best thing is just to another one of the same'. So instead of a 1x15 and 2x10, you would be looking at a 2 1x15s or 2 2x10s.

Having said that I'm pretty sure that either an EBS 2x10/1x15 or 4x10/1x15 would still sound great. I will say though that there is nothing wrong with using a 2x10 and a 1x15. I am perfectly happy with the set-up and it is more than capable of being so loud that it hurts.

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]The RH750 will run at 2.6 ohm, that's 3 8 ohm cabs. I've done gigs with 3 of my Bergantino cabs and I've decided that it's [i][font=Arial]too[/font][/i] loud for what I do! It's also very loud at 4 ohm. I'd get an RH750 and Platypus's NV610. Never mind the ohms, 6 10's would be much louder than the EBS cabs you're looking at. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]In a 6500 seater I'd expect FOH and good fold back, so you could use a 30 watt 1x10 combo and it would work. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]You [i][font=Arial]can[/font][/i] mix speakers sizes. [/font][/color][/size]

[chris_b]

[size=4]On second thoughts, I'd keep your Markbass and put it through the NV610. I bet that would sound amazing.[/size]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1321320967' post='1437883']
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]In a 6500 seater I'd expect FOH and good fold back, so you could use a 30 watt 1x10 combo and it would work. [/font][/color][/size]

[/quote]

This is the right answer

Im really finding it hard to understand why the OP will like either an RH750 or an EBS rig if he shifted the TC450 and cabs as it was too digital/processed which I presume means in a modern Hi-Fi way? The EBS for certain will be even more so IMO.

[xgsjx]

The other option that no one has come up with is sell your EBS cab & get an 8 ohm version.

On another note I wouldn't mix speaker sizes. Yes, you can mix them, but whether it'll sound any good or not will vary from venue to venue.

Also, I'd not go with the 6x10 (or 4x10) unless you normally use PA & just want the rig for your own monitor as it has a lower diepersion than 2 2x10s (or 2x12s) stacked vertically.

[tonyf]

My TC rig replaced an EBS one earlier in the year. I'd gigged with the EBS stuff for the best part of 10 years.

In terms of getting something to run at 2ohms, if you want to go down the route of two 4ohm Proline cabs, I'd go for a HD350 or TD650/660 (if funds allow). I know Panthairsoft is selling his HD350 for a muchly super price. Personally I'd go for that as it's a fantastic head, tone to die for and a HUGE output for the wattage rating. I'd never in all the years I had mine ever struggled with volume.

If you're happy with the TC head and are lusting after the tone produced by the that and the Proline cabs, are you sure that the single 4 ohm cab wouldn't be a solution? Having used one for years, they're SERIOUSLY loud and have SERIOUS headroom. Even using a single Proline 410 cab, I'd be surprised if you're struggling for volume driving it with a RH450/RH750.

However, as chris_b pointed out, if you're playing anything bigger than a pub gig, you're DI'd so having a snarling behemoth of a rig is a bit irrelivent (IMHO of course)



T

[tonyf]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1321356096' post='1438089']
The other option that no one has come up with is sell your EBS cab & get an 8 ohm version.
[/quote]

As far as I know, EBS cabs only come in 4ohm versions.

Calling Mr EBS_Freak....

T

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='tonyf' timestamp='1321359418' post='1438127']
[b]If you're happy with the TC head [/b]and are lusting after the tone produced by the that and the Proline cabs, are you sure that the single 4 ohm cab wouldn't be a solution? Having used one for years, they're SERIOUSLY loud and have SERIOUS headroom. Even using a single Proline 410 cab, I'd be surprised if you're struggling for volume driving it with a RH450/RH750.



T
[/quote]

Unless Im reading it wrong he was not happy at all, in fact "sick of " the TC head and swapped it for a Randy Jackson, Hence all my posts regarding more TC gear being an odd choice and coupled to that the EBS gear will be even more Hi-Fi processed than the TC he was "Sick of". I have no issue with EBS or TC gear but from the OP neither of these brands would be on the letter for santa

Edited November 15, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[xgsjx]

[quote name='tonyf' timestamp='1321359483' post='1438129']
As far as I know, EBS cabs only come in 4ohm versions.

Calling Mr EBS_Freak....

T
[/quote]
I think you could be right there actually.

[tonyf]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1321362064' post='1438179']
Unless Im reading it wrong he was not happy at all, in fact "sick of " the TC head and swapped it for a Randy Jackson
[/quote]

Well spotted that man.

I should really learn to read ALL THE ACTUAL WORDS rather than the one's I THINK are all the actual words

T

[ern500evo]

If you want to keep the Markbass then why not go for 2 8ohm 2x10's or 2x12's which you could stack vertically? Also, as other's have said, that head would sound awesome through platypus' Berg 6x10, and for what it's worth, i can fit an Ashdown 8x10 across the back seats of my Saab 9-3 Aero! Granted it's not something i'd want to do all the time but it is possible!

[bassmachine2112]

Saab 9/3 hatchback ,you can fit an awful amount of gear in them.
2 x 2x10 cabs and head or 2x 1x15 roland combos with 2 basses in cases and leads and essential bass stuff that never comes out the bag with the small seat down for the cases,2 passengers in the back,2 in the front-boogie bus .
If your in the PA ie DI ed then you should have more than enough stage volume unless you don,t like the overall sound of the amp/cabs combination.
You could try using your amp as a side fill instead of pointing out to the crowd.