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Useful tips on recording bass guitar for newbies

BassHertz

By BassHertz,
in Recording

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

Posted
Posted (edited)

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1321960836' post='1444767']
Do you mean pre eq processing is fine?

I agree it can be fine but if you mess it up then there's no going back hence why it isn't usually recommended :)
[/quote]

Doh! Yeah, thats right, pre-eq, what a numpty.

There are two ways of looking at all this. Its a philosophical thing.

If you are recording the whole band together you can really work the room the sounds, the individual elements to get them really heading where you need them to go at the point of tracking. Especially if you are going to mix as well. Eq as you need to, print effects to their own tracks, Whatever.

You need a great deal of skill, foresight and experience to not make a mess of it I agree, but a perfectly tracked session is one where you come to mix and just put all the faders up and bam its done. It rarely if ever really happens, but I have read of mix engineers who have been blown away by how close the tracking got to exactly that.

If you are not a skilled tracking engineer then this process is likely to leave you painted into a corner you cant escape from come mix time. And its not a pleasant place to be.

Edited by 51m0n
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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

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[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321963956' post='1444807']
I'm intrigued ! Please tell me more. What mics do you normally use for mic'ing up bass amps ?
[/quote]

Simple point of this is that each microphone has its own frequency response, think of it like a fixed built in eq on the signal coming into it.

Mics have these eqs built in to them specifically to help them achieve certain things, none more than Kick mics, which tend to have massively cut mids and boosted low and and also around 4KHz.

If you apply the same eq curve to your kick and your bass then come mix time you will struggle toi get a really good seperation between the two instuments in the mix compared to if they dont shre the same eq (ie different mics). It doesnt mean that you cant wrap the bass sound around the kick to make them sound like two halves of the same whole (look up "common fate") at all, it means you have the choice in how you do that come mix down.

You cannot add back that which you have taken away, you could try, with an eq, to fight the natural eq of the mic, but you wont absolutely match the curve of the mic eq (well its so unlikely as to be never), and in doing so you will add noise. Better not to take it away when tracking (see above post about pre-eq) at all, but sculpt at mix down.

Furthermore, the most important part of bass guitar in a mix is the low mid, this holds the warmth, the punch, the pitch info (for all that the fundamental is an octave lower), removing that will make the bass [i]tend[/i] to be harder to discern.

Should that be the right thing for the mix then go at it with an eq in the context of the mix, not with a mic in the context of the tracking.

I like to use a Heil PR-40, Electro voice Re-20 or similar on bass instruments. Both work great on kick and bass, even at the same time, since they leave you to eq the instruments as you need to fo rthe mix at mix down, they dont massively paint you into a corner.

I have succesfully used all manner of dynamic mics on bass alongside a DI, I use the DI to provide the deep bass to low mid, and then filter it out and the mic in for the mids, and upper mids where the player/rig/timbre requires it. An SM57 is perfectly capable of doing this, although sennheiser 421s is gorgeous for this as well!

As for guitar cabs, you will struggle to beat a decent ribbon mic and an SM57 up close with a good LDC further back in the room IME.

As always phase checking is an absolute must.

Edited by 51m0n
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WHUFC BASS Mentor

WHUFC BASS

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Posted

Thanks for the info 51m0n. Some useful pointers there. I usually use a combination of Audix D6 Kick Drum mic and a direct signal from my Trace Elliot's DI output. This signal is always pre-eq so I'm just getting the flat raw bass sound. I usually combine the two and as you mention, once the phase has been checked, I usually get some pretty decent results.

I'm with you on the SM57 for guitar cabs. I just don't think there's a better mic that does it. Especially not for the price.

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

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[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321966496' post='1444841']
Thanks for the info 51m0n. Some useful pointers there. I usually use a combination of Audix D6 Kick Drum mic and a direct signal from my Trace Elliot's DI output. This signal is always pre-eq so I'm just getting the flat raw bass sound. I usually combine the two and as you mention, once the phase has been checked, I usually get some pretty decent results.

I'm with you on the SM57 for guitar cabs. I just don't think there's a better mic that does it. Especially not for the price.
[/quote]

Yes but you are recording reggae, and in that case the huge boost of low end, coupled with your lack of anything much to boost at 4KHz will make this seem fine. A different genre would work a lot less well.

There is nothing you have going on there that you couldnt choose to do at mix time with a different (flatter) mic, and if the sound is working for in context then thats superb, you are eqing with the mic rather than after a mic pre.

I still maintain that within a mix you may well find that a less eq'ed mic would give your more options, some of which could sound even better.

Just a thought....

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WHUFC BASS Mentor

WHUFC BASS

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[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1321967018' post='1444854']
Yes but you are recording reggae[/quote]

Err... I think not ! Punk rock all the way mate ... :) :)

[quote]There is nothing you have going on there that you couldnt choose to do at mix time with a different (flatter) mic, and if the sound is working for in context then thats superb, you are eqing with the mic rather than after a mic pre.[/quote]

That's not a bad suggestion as it goes. I've never really tried much else on a bass cab, as the usual mantra that's trotted out is that kick drum mic = bass frequency response that other mics can't get. As you say, a flatter mic would give you more eq options and any loss of bass response is easily made up when eq'ing.

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

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[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321971728' post='1444939']
Err... I think not ! Punk rock all the way mate ... :) :)
[/quote]

Oh b**ls, sorry!

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321971728' post='1444939']
That's not a bad suggestion as it goes. I've never really tried much else on a bass cab, as the usual mantra that's trotted out is that [i]kick drum mic = bass frequency response that other mics can't get[/i]. As you say, a flatter mic would give you more eq options and any loss of bass response is easily made up when eq'ing.
[/quote]

With all due respect that is utter nonsense.

Look at the frequency plots for:-

[url="http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/38/D1124055c25c068d6.pdf"]AKG D112[/url] (typical kick mic)
[url="http://heilsound.com/pro/products/pr40/productsheet.pdf"]Heil PR40 (broadcast vocal mic utilising neodymium magnet tech)[/url]
[url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shure%20sm98&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shure.com%2Fidc%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fus_pro_sm98_ug.pdf&ei=NRDDTp6EPIuT8gPaveCGCw&usg=AFQjCNGaFeiPpWmLVZDxF5INu6orDcM-Uw&cad=rja"]ElevtroVoice RE20 (old school broadcast mic)[/url]
[url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shure%20sm98&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shure.com%2Fidc%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fus_pro_sm98_ug.pdf&ei=NRDDTp6EPIuT8gPaveCGCw&usg=AFQjCNGaFeiPpWmLVZDxF5INu6orDcM-Uw&cad=rja"]Shure SM98 (condenser capsule as used by Flea live)[/url]
[url="http://www.audixusa.com/docs/specs_pdf/d4.pdf"]Audix D4[/url] (modern dynamic, not specifically a kick mic, but 'capable' in bass territory)

The D112 has no better capabilities wrt bass than any on that list. The SM98 is arguably the flattest down there (difficult to be sure as the frequency response doesnt appear right down to 20Hz though).

The D112 has no magical abilities with bass then, just a built in pre eq, with a mid range cut. Add prximity effect to that bass lift and you get very bassy sounds out of them, but not so much sub bass. Hence the use of speakers wired up to mic inputs slapped right in front of a kick to get the sub, (see the [url="http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/accessories/lowfreq/skrm100/?mode=model"]Yamaha SubKick[/url])

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

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You describe time alignment rather than phase alignment.

Time alignment is bringing the two tracks in time, which means moving one in the tim domain, phase alignment is changing the phase but leaving the timing where it is.

The difference is subtle but important. Phase aligning retains the sense of the space in which things are recorded far better.

Using a delay to sort out phase is very ver tricky, not many delays work in sub-millisecond time gaps, phsing is down to sub ms levels of detail.

You are better off using summed output to get the phase right (and your ears), moving the second source as little as an inch can fix phase. Phase is good when the summed output of two sources is at is maximum, although you need to use your ears to check as well.

There are hardware devices for fixing phase at source in much the same way without moving, they are not cheap (and dotn rely on delays).

In software the easiest, cheapest solution is a free vst called phasebug.

Edited by 51m0n
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