dave_bass5 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='jake_tenfloors' post='164271' date='Mar 27 2008, 08:22 AM']i've got a cheap fretless for sale here, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760[/url] Its really good quality to! -Jake[/quote] Cheers but i really think i should get one with fret lines or whatever they are called. my other problem is of course getting a neck that i like. I dont feel comfortable on a P neck so ill need to play around with some different necks before i decide. A fretless Jazz would be ideal i guess. EDIT: Just seen Born 2B Mild's post. I guess thats what i was trying to say about necks. Edited March 27, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Have a listen to Bela Fleck & the Flecktones playing "Flight of the cosmic hippo" (Victor Wooten on 5-string fretless) & you'll hear what it's all about. It's not a fast or flashy line, but sooo effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Have played fretless :wub: since 1986 and rarely play fretted (I have one gig where the MD insists - I have to acquiese to keep the gig but I think he's wrong)! I play Latin, Jazz, Funk and have played Rock on fretless and, to my ears, it sounds better in almost every setting, the obvious exception being slapping (which I rarely do as a result). You can slap on a fretless (see Pino Palladino) but I accept that it sounds better on a fretted bass. Other than that, I find the fretless warmer, more soulful, more expressive and more versatile. I know a lot of people are anxious about the intonation thing but I see it differently (10, 000, 000 orchestral string players can't all be wrong). Bass Players are part of a fraternity that has been spoled by frets - trombone players don't have notches on their slides that tell them they are in tune - they use their ears. It's just something you need to work on. But it is something that you work on whilst working on everything else you practice so its an 'as well as' not an 'instead of'. It just requires you to listen to your own playing more effectively and actively in the context of the music being performed, a skill that is very useful anyway. ONe of my band's MySpace page (Albino Cubana) has three tracks on it that have my fretless on it and none of them sound like Jaco going 'mwwwwah'; the Mick Karn thing is SO stylised it is interesting but too personal to 'cop' from. Jaco plays beautifully on fretted or fretless but his fretless sound is idiomatically defintive. It is not, however, in any way the only way forward - Percy Jones is iconic, John Giblin was in his shadow but is a formidable player in his own right, Pino Palladino had his own octave dividing chorus thing, the list goes on. Other people have mentioned rock/metal players who play fretless - if you are looking for a 'bass' sound (as opposed to a quasi-guitar thing), a fretless can do pretty much anything a fretted can and a whole lot more. Jeff Berlin said he would never play a fretless because he didn't want to sound like Jaco. I am sorry but I always found that to be crass, even when I thought the sun shone out of his ..... That's like saying John Scofield sounds like Larry Carlton because they both play a semi-hollow body jazz guitar (for those who don't know, they are completely different and immediately identifiable). I find the fretless easier to get a personal sound on. Your intonation is like your accent, its part of what defines your playing, just like your time. To my ears, and I accept this is a personal thing, I do think there is something missing in a fretted sound, some element of humanity. Perfect intonation is not all its cracked up to be!! I could talk about this for hours and would prefer to but I can see you are all nodding off so I'll get my coat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Oh and another thing! I think fretless six string basses lose something as you go up the neck. Past a certain point, all of the beauty goes out of the tone and it just sounds icky! Some of Steve Bailey's stuff is weakened dramatically by this, but this is subjective opinion (I've got a lot of them!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) bilbo. very nice explanation and i understand it all. To be honest though my question was more about how a fretless might work in my situation. playing standard covers etc. Doing the usual Stones, Beatles, rock and roll, Van morrison up to present day i dont think any of the songs we play have been played on a fretless (not that they cant of course) And while im not trying to emulate any particular sound my fretted works fine for all these songs. I do want a fretless but cant see how it will fit in if ive already got the sound i need. Does that make sense? Edited March 27, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Perfectly. My point is only that there are songs that NEED a fretless (Whereever I Lay My Hat by Paul Young would sink without it, Weather Report's 'A Remark You Made' etc) and some that sound (IMO) BETTER on a fretless (every jazz tune ever, for example) but there are VERY few songs that NEED a fretted bass and couldn't be played completely satisfactorily on a fretless. I guess its the opposite of what your saying. Nevertheless, if you are happy with a fretted, just go for it. I can play fretted anytime I need to but prefer to play fretless. So I do and very few people complain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='164340' date='Mar 27 2008, 10:20 AM']Perfectly. My point is only that there are songs that NEED a fretless (Whereever I Lay My Hat by Paul Young would sink without it, Weather Report's 'A Remark You Made' etc) and some that sound (IMO) BETTER on a fretless (every jazz tune ever, for example) but there are VERY few songs that NEED a fretted bass and couldn't be played completely satisfactorily on a fretless. I guess its the opposite of what your saying. Nevertheless, if you are happy with a fretted, just go for it. I can play fretted anytime I need to but prefer to play fretless. So I do and very few people complain! [/quote] No, your points are valid. thats why i need to be convinced it can work. yes, my fretted works perfectly but if i buy a fretless i dont want it just sitting at home for ever. Especially if im putting time and effort in to learning to play it. your right, not many songs (and none of ours) NEED a fretless and we dont do jazz (although it sometimes sounds like we do;-). what im after is convincing i will be fine using a fretless on some of our songs. Of course it depends on the song and i wont really know until i try. I just didnt want to go rushing in to get a fretless only to find i cant use it live (due to the tone, not the playing skill) Can someone point me in the direction of some modern, even chart stuff that played on a fretless? Sometihng thats not "typical" fretless sounding. Edited March 27, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 If I went fretless I'd have to start with a LINED fretboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' post='164351' date='Mar 27 2008, 10:37 AM']If I went fretless I'd have to start with a LINED fretboard.[/quote] Don't talk yourself into it being harder than it is. Fretlines are an unnecessary crutch and, unless I am sorely mistaken, you can't see them from where you are anyway (especially if its dark at the back of the stage!!) As someone said above, there are usually dots on the side of the neck to keep you in the ballpark; after that its just your ears. If you can tell if your bass is out of tune, you can't go wrong! IMO, bearing in mind I have played fretless for 22 years (last Tuesday - literally!! I still have thre recipt for my Wal ), if you can play fretted, you can play fretless. Trust me, I am a Probation Officer... Edited March 27, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='chris_b' post='164351' date='Mar 27 2008, 10:37 AM']If I went fretless I'd have to start with a LINED fretboard.[/quote] Too right, nothing wrong with using lines at all. It can be set up (intonation) to suit your fretting hand, the notes aren't directly on the lines all the way up the neck, I find them more of a guide, you still have to listen to your playing / intonation even with lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nimrod Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='164367' date='Mar 27 2008, 11:10 AM']Too right, nothing wrong with using lines at all. It can be set up (intonation) to suit your fretting hand, the notes aren't directly on the lines all the way up the neck, I find them more of a guide, you still have to listen to your playing / intonation even with lines.[/quote] TBH, I couldn't play a fretless accurately [b][i]without[/i][/b] a lined fretboard... Of course I'd love to not need them, but I've been playing bass for three years. Not long enough for me to have learned my way around the 'board accurately. If having lines means someone has the confidence to record and/or gig with it, I'd say:- Just do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic mac moe Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 You are oroginally asking if fretless will work in your situation.My answer is simply yes.In my last post,I mentioned my old fretless P.That was my sole bass at that time.My band were playing classic rock covers,Bon Jovi etc.You don't have to play obvious fretless parts i.e. long high slides,although they sound real sweet! You can still hear its influence subtly in first position stuff.I think you should go for it.Whats the worst situation?It ends up back on here in a couple of months for one of us dogs to fight over!!! (no offence guys!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) i've been playing bass for 25+ years and only a few months ago picked up my first ever fretless (Lined Jazz) - basically because i just fancied one and had a bit of spare cash - I play in mainly hard rock bands so won't use it live but at home i noodle about with loads of different styles and the fretless does make for some interesting new ideas although some of my bits i normally play on fretted don't work so well - string bends and tapping/slapping for instance. Heres a tony franklin video i just found - quite good: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsVLOJDX-fM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsVLOJDX-fM[/url] also check out Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam who used a fretless alot particularly on their earlier stuff peace c Edited March 27, 2008 by 3V17C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobiebass Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I only read half the thread, sorry, but... Like someone said, in the mix if you mess up slightly you can move your hand slightly to get the right note and noone seams to notice. I found it hard to pick up as I wasnt all that great with my fingering before my fretless. but it taught me so much in such a little time, I can play now and tell when ive missed the note, really helped train my ear. I love the tone as well, there really isnt anything like it. My Fretless Jazz hangs up on the wall most of the time now but I do love picking it up just to do a few slides cause its the best sound in the world. Fun to play, takes some time to get used to and sounds great if you want something a little diffrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 These days I love playing fretless, but as I said in my earlier post, I got it because I could hear the potential for fretless as I was working out the basslines for my current band's songs. I seems to me that you can't hear that from what you've been posting. However don't let that stop you getting one to try out - just don't try and force it into the music because you (and your band) are unlikely to be happy with the result. I also used mine in the covers band I was in for a while but we didn't play the songs strictly as they were on the record so I was pretty much free to do my own thing so long as it captured the feel of the song and its bassline and I stayed in tune! As for fret markers. When it come down to it you need to use your ears. Lines will get you close but they don't guarantee you being properly in tune. Also unless you have very contrasting lines they'll most likely disappear under stage lighting conditions. Also if you get one with dots on the side only make sure that they're on where the frets would be rather than between the frets as on a fretted bass (I've seen a couple like this). My favourite compromise is standard 3,5,7,9,12 etc dots on the side where the frets would be (but including one for the first fret) and also the same dots on the front of the fingerboard between the highest two strings to counteract parallax problems (where you tend to play flat higher up on the D and G strings due to viewing them at an angle in relation to the side dots). I have this on my Lightwave bass and it will be on my Sei which is currently under construction. Hope you find some of that useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='164331' date='Mar 27 2008, 10:08 AM']Doing the usual Stones, Beatles, rock and roll, Van morrison up to present day i dont think any of the songs we play have been played on a fretless (not that they cant of course)[/quote] Bill Wyman claims he was the first fretless player (or one of the first). And the word is that he played fretless on a lot of the Stones records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='164477' date='Mar 27 2008, 02:02 PM']Bill Wyman claims he was the first fretless player (or one of the first). And the word is that he played fretless on a lot of the Stones records.[/quote] mm... He never played a fretless on stage, tv or film!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) yeah Wyman did apparently defret a bass way way back when the Stones first started out which he then used quite often.... [color="#000080"]STONES TONES "I think it's Japanese," is all Bill Wyman can offer as to the origin of his famous "homemade" fretless. "I was playing in an R&B band in 1961 when I bought it from this bloke our drummer knew. Before that I'd been playing bass on the bottom two strings of a detuned guitar, so I was glad to finally have a 'real' bass. Unfortunately, it was bloody horrible! The body was this great big wide thing. But I'd seen Gibson and Fender basses in pictures of Little Richard's and Fats Domino's bands, so I drew a shape like one of those on the back of my bass and had my next-door neighbor saw it down. Then I beveled the edges, took off all the paint, and put in a new Baldwin pickup. Still, it rattled with every note because the frets were so worn. I figured I'd just pull out all the frets and put in new ones when I could afford some. But when I pulled 'em out, it suddenly sounded really good! [Laughs.] So I never put frets back in, and I think it was the first fretless electric ever. I used it on every Stones album and many of the singles up to 1975. Even without an amp, it sounds wonderfulit's got the sound." [/color] peace c Edited March 27, 2008 by 3V17C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='David Nimrod' post='164370' date='Mar 27 2008, 11:15 AM']TBH, I couldn't play a fretless accurately [b][i]without[/i][/b] a lined fretboard... Of course I'd love to not need them, but I've been playing bass for three years. Not long enough for me to have learned my way around the 'board accurately. If having lines means someone has the confidence to record and/or gig with it, I'd say:- Just do it [/quote] Yep, well put lines all the way I reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='164477' date='Mar 27 2008, 02:02 PM']Bill Wyman claims he was the first fretless player (or one of the first). And the word is that he played fretless on a lot of the Stones records.[/quote] Percy Jones was one of the first too I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Tub Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='David Nimrod' post='163975' date='Mar 26 2008, 06:45 PM']That's pretty much my aim on [b][i]fretted[/i][/b] basses... [/quote] LOL! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ok. Im sold. Ive decided ill just get a fretless neck and put it on my Jazz bass. At the moment im not using the Jazz and dont really want to buy another bass if i can help it. Any ideas where i can get a cheap fretless Jazz neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Always worth looking on ebay, I think Jazz replacements are about 150-200 quid from WD Music and Allparts, might be just as well to get a whole bass, there's on for sale here, looks a tidy little number [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Jase' post='168085' date='Apr 2 2008, 12:39 AM']Always worth looking on ebay, I think Jazz replacements are about 150-200 quid from WD Music and Allparts, might be just as well to get a whole bass, there's on for sale here, looks a tidy little number [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15760[/url][/quote] When i say Jazz i mean Jazz style. ive looked on ebay for a neck and there isnt much around on the UK site but there is a guy with one in the USA for around £90. Im in no rush. I wont get another bass no matter what as even though a good neck wont be cheap i have no desire to use my Jazz at the moment so the neck will go on that and no need to have another bass lying around. Thanks for the link but that doesn't have any fret lines on it. thanks anyway. Edited April 2, 2008 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.