I want you to use a pick ???

[JTUK]

Great AC/DC link but am I missing something..?

How does that sell a pick sound because if you didn't know how the guy played, you would never be able to tell one way or another.

Didn't play it right to the end though..

[stingrayPete1977]

Cliff Williams is for many the pinnacle of pick players, the ultimate metronome! That was a live link so the impact of his pick tone is lost in the poor sound quality, if your not aware of his awesome pick tone JTUK you need to get some AC/DC in your life!

[Prime_BASS]

I alkways think of thunderstruck when AC/DC gets mentioned.

In all honestly pick sounds have always been sounds that are designed to sit back in the mix and do that low thumpy that majority of audience barely notice.

If you want a great pick player and sound, Nate Mendal live is great but for the more showy player Takeshi Ueda of Mad Capsule Markets is good example, even more so if you like bass distortion.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' timestamp='1321710884' post='1442268']
Been in this situation before - albeit for different reasons (band didn't like it when I sat down at rehearsals or to record). To me there are a few different sides to this but ultimately it boils down to:

1: If you're paying for my services I'll take your advice/follow your order, but I'll also be a little pissed that you're second guessing my experience of playing this instrument.

2: If I'm playing in this band for fun, then the moment someone starts telling me what to do and insists I set aside my way of doing things and follow theirs then it ceases to be fun for me.

In the scenarios I mentioned above, the sitting down at rehearsals/recording, I was asked to stand up because it fit 'THE VIBE'. Well, the relevant bit here is that it's about THEIR vibe and not about yours. The other members put their vibe before mine which resulted in them all being happy if I stood up and me being more than pissed off that we wasted time and effort arguing over something trivial.

Another way to look at it is this: great story from the LSO: Conductor says to the percussionist "I don't like that sound, try using the other mallets". Percussionist replies: "You tell me what sound you want and I'll tell you what mallets I'll use."
[/quote]



This!

If someone is paying and asks for pick, then give it to them! Megadeth / Dave Mustaine is famous for auditioning bass players he likes and then telling them to swap to pick playing. If you want the gig, you do it.

I am utterly crap with a pick, in fact I don't think I've used one for at least 15 years. I like the connection I get with the instrument by using fingers. I play guitar as well, I'm not bad and use a pick there of course, but on a bass it seems alien to me.

That Bobby Vega bloke may end up insiring me to have another go though - that was lovely.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1322385951' post='1450042']
I alkways think of [b]thunderstruck[/b] when AC/DC gets mentioned.
[/quote]

Good thinking Prime_BASS, this IMO would sound crap played with fingers. Dont bother listening on laptop/iphone speaker JTUK
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o018byLnMFM&ob=av2n"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o018byLnMFM&ob=av2n[/url]

[JTUK]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322383508' post='1450027']
Cliff Williams is for many the pinnacle of pick players, the ultimate metronome! That was a live link so the impact of his pick tone is lost in the poor sound quality, if your not aware of his awesome pick tone JTUK you need to get some AC/DC in your life!
[/quote]

Yep..gotta say that AC/DC don't register on my radar much even though their drummer plays locally here..
and I do know that the bass players forte is straight 8's with a pick..just that you wouldn't know it from that
link. Also got to say a MM with a pick..?? that could a hell of a lot of attack. Overkill potential is HUUUUGGEE there, IMO.
But anyway..............

Edited November 27, 2011 by JTUK

[JTUK]

I preferred the Thunderstruck link...song is a bit too chummy for me, but there you go..!!

[stingrayPete1977]

TBH my Rays dont have as much output as you would think JT compared to some more modern basses, especially those with 18v pre amps. I tend to just take the treble off a tiny bit if I pull a pick from my back pocket for a song or two, the lows tend to be fat and huge but below everyone elses space which is what Cliff does I guess? Love it! Strangely as I sit here typing defending playing with a pick Im trying to nail Sir Duke with fingers and thumb from JakeBrowns transcription. (Thanks Jake )

[JTUK]

The MM pre amp is very powerful with what..?? 15bd to play with.. so not subtle at all in the wrong hands, IMO.
That is unusable, tbh...as indeed it is with the East pre.

I made my MM passive because of it...using a custom KA pickup.
It worked for a while.

[stingrayPete1977]

I cant imagine many Ray fans agreeing with any of that mate really, the versatility of the 2 or 3 EQ is great for all styles of music IMO I bet you cant find one type of music where there isnt a Ray being used from Country to Jazz. I wont be stripping out any of my pre amps, maybe Im not the wrong hands?

[dmccombe7]

I would never consider removing a pre-amp from bass to make it passive.
Would you not have been better fitting some kind of by-pass switch on pre-amp and that way you always have the option.
I've considered MM basses over the years but for a couple of reasons didn't go for it. Didn't spend a lot of time looking at different ones though.
1. found the neck a bit too wide for me. more like a precision. Would that be right enough. ?
2. always thought the were a bit lo and hi ended with not a lot in middle. Again no expert on them. More suited to slap styles in 80's.
I definately like the look of them and some of the G&L's that followed them.

With regards the pick and fingerstyle thing I'm covering varied styles within the set list as you would expect any covers band so gotta give it a shot with the pick or something along those lines.

On another little note i went to see Deep Purple last night. My first time seeing them. They still have it although the solos (mainly keys) were a bit tedious. Glover was his usual confident, competent steady rock bassist using 2 different Vigier basses through set and ending with a typical bass solo with a pick. He was using TC cabs. Couldn't see an amp.
Cheap Trick supporting. Now that was an incredible bass sound. Couldn't quite make out what the bass was but it would be multi stringed and very full when played on its own.
Enjoyed it.

Cheers
Dave

Edited November 27, 2011 by dmccombe7

[JTUK]

The Cheap Trick guy always used an 8 string Hamer, IIRC.

The MM was very clanky for me.... and I always dialed down that boost to get away from the traditional sound that so many get.
I guess I never had an amp with it that really allowed me to do much else at the time.

The bass played great which is why I modded it..plus the fact that Kent A was happy to do a few experiments sound-wise for me and knock up a few pickups
that I could try out. He had such a brilliant insight to this sort of thing..as you'd expect, obviously, as he was making pickups for a whole host of makers
and they were all wound in that shop, AFAIK.
So, since he offered... I went with the idea. Loved it for quite a while and sold the bass with that pickup on ..plus the old stuff which I kept - only because
I moved to 5 str and that made the MM redundant from a playing POV.

The MM was a modern P-bass take so had the P-bass neck Dims in terms of width...as opposed to a Jazz.
I still prefer this even though I play Jazzes.

Apart from the basses I have now..that MM was the best bass I had from a playing POV...stellar and bombproof neck.

[dmccombe7]

Yep i do like the look of them and maybe i should try one again as its been many yrs.
It might actually be a sound I'm looking for. Bought an Overwater J4 earlier this year and i think this has a similar sound to MM but different neck feel if memory serves me right.
I think Overwaters were originally Kent A pick-ups ???

Cheers
Dave

[JTUK]

Not sure...but I do know who KA was winding pickups for at that time as they included just about everybody..esp from the U.S
as he was breaking that market. Not long after that..he moved over there, IIRC...
Not sure how big a name Overwater was back then but have no doubt they could have used his pickups as a
specified supplier.

[bassbloke]

I've asked drummers to close their hats, turn their sticks round, stick a coin to their bass drums, try wooden beaters. I've suggested tuning down a step to help the singer stand out more, switching to standard tuning to give the songs more bite, the list is endless.

The point is there are two ways to interpret your keyboard players request

1) Take offence at his temerity in asking you to change what you do
2) Be happy that he cares enough about the sounds of the band and your bass to suggest you try something diffferent.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='bassbloke' timestamp='1322436423' post='1450945']
I've asked drummers to close their hats, turn their sticks round, stick a coin to their bass drums, try wooden beaters. I've suggested tuning down a step to help the singer stand out more, switching to standard tuning to give the songs more bite, the list is endless.

The point is there are two ways to interpret your keyboard players request

1) Take offence at his temerity in asking you to change what you do
2) Be happy that he cares enough about the sounds of the band and your bass to suggest you try something diffferent.
[/quote]

I'm gonna go with No 2 i think.
You are right - gotta try and its actually more enjoyable as i get used to it.
I'm still not using a pick but more my index finger combined with slightly longer nails which gives same sound as pick IMO.
only time will tell. Few days to next rehearsal so will wait and see what comes out of it.

thanks
Dave

[dmccombe7]

Quick update.
Used the fingernail trick at reahearsal yesterday and the full band commented on how different it sounded.
They liked the clarity and definition of the notes whereas they reckoned it was slightly muddier before.
I will now leave my nails a little longer just enough to catch the string and give it some added punch.
Did try using my nail as a pick player uses a plectrum but gonna take more time to perfect that technique.

Everyone is happy and i'm kinda chuffed too that it worked.
I did of course set up my Roland GT-6B with Ampeg and 2x15 cab sound with added top end and gain to give it that Glenn Hughes live sound. Used that for certain songs and what a difference it made to the feel of the song. More energy and power.

It was a good rehearsal so all well in the band front again.

Thanks for everyone's advice - its very much appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

[mike257]

Glad to hear you've landed on something that works for you and your band, great stuff!