Dipping my toe in the upright bass pond?

[The Dark Lord]

I think upright basses look way cool and I've got this crazy idea that I could play upright bass on a couple of numbers in the set ...... and maybe do some acoustic sets with our guitarist and singer.

I usually play Precisions and Jazzes.

Before taking the plunge and regretting it, I've arranged to hire one (with a pickup) for a month to see if I can get on with. I'm fairly sure I can amplify it through my AER Amp One.

I know it's a complex instrument and I know I will need to keep it simple in the beginning and I'll be lucky to get ANY sound out of it at first.

Is this a feasible goal? It might kindle a love affair, or it might not work. Who knows.

[bassace]

I'm sure it'll sound great through an Amp One. In the absence of any lessons (which you should consider before long, perhaps) my advice to you is this: coming from bass guitar, you may be surprised at the pressure you need to exert on the fingerboard with the left hand and the robust snap of your fingers you'll need to pluck the string to get a good note. Keep at it, it'll be a real physical challenge at first but your muscles will soon acclimatise. Enjoy!

[marvin spangles]

Not sure "look way cool" is the best motivation for taking the plunge.

[TheRev]

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1321785582' post='1442913']
Not sure "look way cool" is the best motivation for taking the plunge.
[/quote]

It's as good a reason as any other, and probably why most of us started playing bass in the first place....

Hiring is a good idea, it worked for me. If you're aiming at making up your mind in two months, make sure you put in some proper practice every day as it'll probably take two months to get to the point where you can comfortably play a set's worth of songs in tune and without hurting yourself.

[fatback]

Hey, go for it. you won't regret giving it a shot.

Get a lesson before you try to play, though. Really. Number one priority is not to hurt yourself, and the upright is well capable of doing you real damage. Also, you might as well start right. It'll be money well spent.

[Blademan_98]

........and keep us informed . I too would like to play upright.

It sounds like a great way to go with hiring the instrument first.

I agree on the lesson comment above too.

Go for it and have fun.

[geoffbassist]

Life's too short. Just get stuck in! I would recommend taking a few lessons at the start though.
Enjoy :-)

[The Dark Lord]

Bit of an update ...... I called a local music shop who do this sort of thing. They are happy to rent one to me for £35 for a month. Seems reasonable. They'll also stick a "microphone-style" pickup on it. I had a look and feel of it. A 3/4 size thing with a pleasing patina. Dunno if it is laminated or whatever. I'll ask later. It was a bit big and scary. I could hardly get a note out of it (with about 6 people looking on) - we all had a good laugh at my expense, but it was fun. Just the very look of the instrument made everyone in the shop smile. I pick it up on Saturday for a month.

[Bilbo]

Its a great way of doing it; hiring I mean. I was loaned a bass for six months and its turned me around. Can see a time when I leave the electric alone (a way off yet ) but, in a nutshell, everything I play sounds more convincing. I still can't play for hours without losing the energy but, each time I gig, I get a little further before the muscles collapse! Anyway, I hope you experience with the new bass is positive.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1321804524' post='1443190']
Number one priority is not to hurt yourself, and the upright is well capable of doing you real damage.
[/quote]
Really? How can you hurt yourself with it?

[51m0n]

Bad techinique will cause you to compensate in other ways which will eventually take its toll in the form of a real injury.

You need to exert significantly more pressure with db than bg- I fairly regularly have a quick go on Plux's and am staggered to be able to find any notes on it at all -that extra pressure is the clue that you could hurt yourself.

Get a decent local teacher to give you ac ouple of lessons and you will proceed from there far faster and more safely than if you just have go. There are all sorts of tips for staying in tune, and not hurting yourself that they will give you straitgh away.

Plux is playing the Brighton Centre with the Brighton Music Service Big Band in December, he's really starting to swing with that big ole thing, sounds fantastic!

Edited November 20, 2011 by 51m0n

[fatback]

[quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1321811866' post='1443348']
Really? How can you hurt yourself with it?
[/quote]

Tendonitis in the hands and wrists, various forms of RSI, and muscle strain in the shoulders and neck. Even when you try to be careful with technique, doing too much or getting sloppy can quickly cause you pain, inflammation etc. Nasty, and frustrating in that it can stop you playing for a long time.

Really, one lesson can be enough to make you aware of good technique, and after that you can keep an eye on books and vids to try and build on that.

I've only been at upright for 15 months, but it seems to me that being very careful about technique from the start pays huge dividends (after the initial frustration) very quickly.

Why don't you try and get recommendations for a local teacher on here?

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1321819705' post='1443493']
Why don't you try and get recommendations for a local teacher on here?
[/quote]
Seems to be good advice. I'll probably do that.

[rockabillybob1]

just slap the arse end out of it

[thisnameistaken]

Don't be put off if you have to take it very slowly at first. When I first started (not so long ago!) I could only play for five or ten minutes at a time before I had to recover. The noises it made in those minutes made me pick it up again though.

It rewards the time put into it more than bass guitar does IMO. It's capable of a much broader range of sounds and has a certain authority to it.

[sarah thomas]

I've just got my first upright after two lessons with a local teacher and am going carefully because of a tendency towards carpal tunnel syndrome. I've had the beautiful creature for a week and usually play two or three times a day for 15 minutes at a time. When my wrist starts to ache, I stop. The lessons and advice were invaluable and now I've got Rufus Reid's DVD 'Evolving Bassist' where chapters 12 and 13 tell you about left and right hand technique, so I can keep checking in. My teacher's doing a jazz degree on the DB at the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama and the practice rooms there have a mirror on the wall so you can check your arm and hand positioning while you play. I find this so useful that I've set up a mirror (full length) at home.

And I'm hoping to play it for a couple of numbers at an end of term concert at Christmas before shrinking back to the Ashbory. Woohoo!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='mercuryl' timestamp='1321820146' post='1443506']

Seems to be good advice. I'll probably do that.
[/quote]

Jakesbass on here is in Aldershot, Hants. Lots of us here have been helped by him. He's a great teacher. Certainly worth a visit.

Sarah - who is your tutor? I used to knock around in Cardiff (as did Jakesbass, ironically) and wonder if I know him/er?

[andybassdoyle]

Totally agree with the comments about technique, damage etc. Be warned!! Coming from bass guitar if you go for your finger ends you can expect them to quickly blister and the ends to drop off. You need to get some meat behind those strings!
For me the upright is just a completely different instrument. If feels different, responds differently and makes you think about what to play in completely different ways to bass guitar.
Gear is a real red herring, the sound is ultimately in your hands far more so that bass guitar and it can be really difficult working out how to get a good stage sound. DB seems to be more vunerable to poor rooms, positioning etc so it's aways worth keeping that in mind.
Slam dunk it's great to try before you commit but in my experience you will need to invest a fair bit of yourself in DB before you can really work out if it's for you. It's also worth considering that it's a difficult bugger to play at first, not helped by the fact that a cheap starter instrument will demand far more from you to make it work. The physical relationship between you and the bass is massive in comparison to DB. A better quality bass will sing better and do more for you however this could run you some serious folding by which time you've probably worked a lot of this out for yourself....
Bottom line whatever your motivation it's well worth a look. DB opens up loads of musical opportunities for you and it's a massively fulfilling instrument once you've aligned yourself with it.
Best of luck

[sarah thomas]

Bilbo - my tutor's called Huw Williams, he's in the 4th and final year of a jazz degree. I've seen him playing in a couple of places in Cardiff, and my other tutor, Julian Martin (evening classes, beginner jazz ensemble) has played with him. I don't know many of the Cardiff lot as I've only just started out - can you throw me some names? I guess Lee Goodall and Paula Gardiner are the top dogs on the doghouse round here. Who do you know? Do you ever get over to Cardiff?

I get the feeling I'm pretty lucky in Cardiff, having a few jazz venues, good players and even an evening class to learn a bit of ensemble jazz. What's it like for other people?

[Bilbo]

Julian was best man at my wedding and is my oldest and dearest friend. Tell him Rob Palmer says hi!! I used to play with him often and played bass in his first band (which had Lee Goodall on drums (in case you didn't know, Lee also plays guitar)! I get down there about once a year and have often stayed at his place.

I knew Paula (although not well)when she first took up the bass (she was already playing guitar and flute). She's a great player (I just recently downloaded her trio cd with Lee and Mark O'Connor - some nice stuff on there). Other folk I know that are around there: Ian Williams (dr), Osian Roberts (tenor sax - based in Prague but his family still lives near Roath Park), Ceiri Torjussen (tpt - based half the time in LA), Rob Haddon (gtr), Dylan Fowler (g), James Chadwick (g), Nigel Cyril (dr), Greg Meliville (g), Dick Hamer (sax), Paul Hornsby (sax), Glen Manby (as), Greg Evans (dr), Barry Foscolo (perc), Jon Caulfild (bs), Jon Thomas (bs).... you may recognise some of them although I suspect some have moved on one way or another.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='andybassdoyle' timestamp='1322480589' post='1451204']
Totally agree with the comments about technique, damage etc. Be warned!! Coming from bass guitar if you go for your finger ends you can expect them to quickly blister and the ends to drop off. You need to get some meat behind those strings!
For me the upright is just a completely different instrument. If feels different, responds differently and makes you think about what to play in completely different ways to bass guitar.
Gear is a real red herring, the sound is ultimately in your hands far more so that bass guitar and it can be really difficult working out how to get a good stage sound. DB seems to be more vunerable to poor rooms, positioning etc so it's aways worth keeping that in mind.
Slam dunk it's great to try before you commit but in my experience you will need to invest a fair bit of yourself in DB before you can really work out if it's for you. It's also worth considering that it's a difficult bugger to play at first, not helped by the fact that a cheap starter instrument will demand far more from you to make it work. The physical relationship between you and the bass is massive in comparison to DB. A better quality bass will sing better and do more for you however this could run you some serious folding by which time you've probably worked a lot of this out for yourself....
Bottom line whatever your motivation it's well worth a look. DB opens up loads of musical opportunities for you and it's a massively fulfilling instrument once you've aligned yourself with it.
Best of luck
[/quote]
Okay. So I picked up the rental bass on Saturday. £36.50 per month to rent ..... inc insurance. More than I had first been told ...... but what the hell.

I've gotta say, I agree with just about EVERYTHING that Andy there said.

Here's my first impressions. Man, it looks cool. Everyone who walks into the house and sees it in the living room says "wow!". To be honest, that's half the reason I'm thinking of buying one, right there. I had a quick play of it in the shop and could hardly get a note out of it. When I got it home though, after a bit of thought and planning, I could do a half-decent version of some of the songs that I play on a normal fretted Precision or Jazz.

It is a big, physical beast ( 3/4 size) and you really feel that you and the bass are connected in some way. You feel like you're playing it together. The action is quite high (more of that in a minute) and there appears to be more space between the notes in the scale - which makes things more of a stretch. It's actually quite hard to play - and you start to feel your hand, wrist and forearm "tiring" after a song or two. I am going at this softly, a little bit at a time. When I start to ache, I stop. I'll do regular amounts each day and build up from there.

I had the good fortune to come across a double bass player at this weekend's Basschat Bass Bash in West Sussex ( called 'duckapluck' ?? ) who gave me a few tips and had a play on it ........ he plays in an orchestra. Shows you what can be done.

The rental bass doesn't have a great deal of volume. Probably (said duckapluck) down to the £20 strings and general quality of the bass. It's also not amplified in any way. I have been offered this one, with a pickup to be added, for £600 - but I guess I'll decline ...... not just for the reason that it appears to have had a neck repair at one point.

Great fun though - and I may already be sold on the idea. Just need to find a spare £1500 (at least) or so for a proper one with a set up and strings.

I'll probably open myself up to ridicule by posting a video before long.


..... oh yeah, duckapluck told me that the action usually IS quite high and that I'll never get one down to the (almost zero) action that I have on my Precisions and Jazz.

Edited November 28, 2011 by mercuryl

[51m0n]

That would be "Plux The Duck" also refferred to as Plux, or my son

Edited November 28, 2011 by 51m0n

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1322491789' post='1451438']
That would be "Plux The Duck" also refferred to as Plux, or my son
[/quote]
Indeed. He was very helpful.

[sarah thomas]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1322487455' post='1451335']
Julian was best man at my wedding and is my oldest and dearest friend.[/quote]

He's a star. He sits by me, keeping splendid time and rhythm on the djembe, and still manages to jab his finger at my sheet music until I'm back on track, usually shouting something like 'G 2 3 4' to help me along, all the while listening to what everyone else is doing.

For anyone in or near Cardiff - he runs two classes at the Gate, City Road, on Monday nights. 6-8 for beginners, 8-10 for folks who can read music and have some improv experience. He does a Wednesday evening at Cardiff uni as well. It's a great way to meet other players, have a laugh and get some experience of playing with other people.

[The Dark Lord]

Alas, my loaner uright bass is due to go back to the store this weekend. And my conclusion? ............ Upright is not for me. It has been a really cool and groovy thang. EVERYBODY who has come into my house has been drawn to it, immediately after they see it with comments like "wow!" It has been a lot of fun, but sonically, it just doesn't do it for me. I have managed to replicate a lot of the basslines that I normally play on it - and not just in a simplified manner. I did get some tips from a fellow basschatter too. But it's not for me. I guess the clank and rumble of a good old Precision is too deply ingrained in me. The cool thang goes back tomorrow - the rest of my living room furniture will miss it - but hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained.