Yamaha 02R Digital Mixing Desk..

[VTypeV4]

I've used the 02R everyday in this last week as both an FOH and a post production console. It worked very well on both occasions which I'm very pleased about.

FOH:

I spent a little more time configuring the console to how I want it setup which has also helped with it's functionality. Using the four stereo in channels (17/18, 19/20, 21/22, 23/24) faders and re-assigning them as sub-group pairs was a handy trick which wasn't immediatly obvious how to do. A bit of googling and reading a few old SOS helped with that. I always like to use and assign groups rather than just sending the lot to L/R.

Production Mix:

I tried this for the first time yesterday by using the ADAT outs on the MOTU and the Tape ins on the 02R. Using my Headphones and the Rigger PA as a monitor was less than ideal (it sounds sweet but isn't particularly flat or honest) but fine as a test bed for demonstration purposes. I haven't done any mixing on a recording using an actual mixing console for a very long time but I actually found it quicker as it was like mixing a silent and invisible group. Mixing using Pro-Tools mixer and setup works well as there's loads of options and controls so I'm a bit torn as whether I prefer it or not.

Without going on and on, I'm slowly finding love for the 02R appreciating it's power and flexibility.

[althemusicwizard]

Hey VT,
I've found your posts really informative.
I've used loads of gear over the years both for recording and doing live stuff. I've just had a mega blow-out on some mixing consoles I've bought from an Ebay dealer...they include a couple of Ghosts (had one before), a Mackie 8buss (never had one), a Soundcraft Spirit24 (had one before) and an O2R (never had one). I also bought another O2R with a meterbridge and ADAT card which I hope to collect at the same time. I bought the meterbridge one before I read your post about how you'd found it a great asset, because with a digital desk you need all the information you can. I'll write once I've collected everything and had a chance to play with the O2R.
Al

Edited July 14, 2015 by althemusicwizard

[VTypeV4]

Sounds liike you've got quite a collection on the way!

My 02R has been great although it's away for repair at the min due to a power supply issue. I'm quite eager to get it back as it's very much become integral to what I do, I feel a bit restricted without it.

The trick with the 02R (like the LS9) is to have a few templates and a few settings including routing stored in the libary as it makes setting up so much easier when you come to use the desk. A number of features are buried and tricky to get at but one of the strengths of these Yamahas is the send on faders for the Aux and FX which makes things really quick. Again, if you've got a rough template on the go,it really does make things so much easier and quicker.

What are you using yours for?

I've just re-read my old post above and I DO prefer mixing on the 02R rather than just using Pro-Tools as using Yamaha, I can do the bulk of the work on the desk than add fancy plugins as inserts in the software.

Edited July 14, 2015 by VTypeV4

[althemusicwizard]

So I managed to get all the desks in the Berlingo....seven desks and a lot of duvets / cushions and packing. RRP on all those desks......just short of £35000! I picked them up with four Soundcraft CPS275 power supplies for considerably less than that!
I've always wanted to try some mixers back to back to compare the different qualities. Now the bottom's fallen out of the mixer market (apart from new mixers that have 'wi-fi' capability) I'm more than happy to punt a few hundred quid on a mixer that retailed at £4000 plus. I just picked up another O2R (admittedly needing some LTC and repairs on the main out section) for £50....sorry £90 including £40 worth of diesel to pick it up from Sunderland.

I finished my first musical earlier this year which I want to put on. I plan on recording the band parts onto a Tascam MX2424 (I already have a lot of it mocked up in Propellerhead's Reason but the thought of using computers live still fills me with dread). I have a bank of MX2424 machines so I can run a couple of machines in sync in case one goes AWOL during the show. I now have a compliment of radio mics too (fourteen) which should be enough for the cast.
The mixers were being sold by an Ebay dealer that deals primarily in used MACS, so imagine my horror whan I get there and the gear is all at the back door of their warehouse, on the floor, next to a Soundcraft Sapphire which looked as if it had just been cannabilised for whatever the poor mixer could give. After a three hour session going through the main bits of each mixer, I decided that they all were worth buying once I could see past the grime. The 24 channel Ghosts look like they have had minimal work done on them (evidenced by the newness of the pots), but the 32 channel was more battle-scarred. The O2R has a damaged phantom switch, a bent gain pot and TAPE 15 and 16 are missing the shafts of their pots. I'm not sure how much I'd use these encoders as the desk uses the FLIP to put the TAPE channels on the MIC channels. It would have been great if the Yammy engineers had used these encoders like later desks did (to control a whole channel strip....comp settings in particular).
I do love the AUX implementation.I used to use the YAMAHA AW4416 which had a similar implemntation on the AUX, but only had 60mm faders and lacked enough grunt in the mixing when it was processing 16 tracks of audio too. It's so easy to see the AUX settings on the faders and also the routing buttons are going to be useful.
I have been using various Behringer X32 desks recently (the full X32, then the RACK version with a laptop and then the halfway house of the Producer). The X32 only have XLR jacks and I never liked the idea that you might have a line source plugged in and accidently switched on phantom power or recalled it from a scene setting. Nice to see the O2R only has phantom power on where it should be...the mic inputs.
My O2Rs have come with various cards, so I have two ADAT cards and 2 analogue cards. The analogue cards take up two slots (they're 8 channel IN and 8 channel OUT and would have cost an absolute fortune no doubt in 1995).

The TASCAM MX2424 are 24 track recorders, with 24 analogue INS and 24 anologue OUTS as well as 24 INS and 24 OUTS on ADAT too, so I've wired things up as follows:

ADAT cards are wired from SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 to 1-8 and 9-16 of the MX2424 INS and OUTS.

This means that I could send 16 mic sources to the recorder at once. As I won't need more than 8 sources at one time these can come from the first 8 mic channels.
The analogue card in SLOT 3&4 can serve BUSS OUTPUTS 1-8 to the MX2424 track 17-24 inputs. I plan on using 17-24 as submixed groups (probably backing vox, woodwind, strings and brass).

I have connected the MX2424 analogue outputs (1-24) to the LINE INPUTS of the O2R so that the TAPE RETURNS are all on the same fader bank while sub-mixing. Thinking of the live situation, I will have 14 'line' sources from the Sennheiser radio mics, which may come up on the TAPE inputs (via two Behringer ADA8200 ADAT which I picked up) or plugged straight into the MIC line inputs....I haven't finalised anything yet as I'm still getting used to the idea of using the MX2424 recorders as a 1-16 mono channels and 17-24 as sub-group stereo pairs...which could work out pretty good.

If I find myself short of channels, I could always use one of the other mixers as a sub-mixer........

Al



plan on using the O2R as a 16 input

[VTypeV4]

Sounds like you've got plenty to keep you going there! You must post some pix too!

I get mine back tomorrow which I'm very pleased about although it sounds like the repair man as gone to town on it so I'm expecting it to perform like a new one. I also expect all the data will have been lost too as I had no chance to back it up before it died.

Despite the problem I've had, I still believe the Yamaha is an excellent and highly capable desk.

[VTypeV4]

A run of the desk seems to have it back on all cylinders after a quick shakedown run yesterday. I'll put it on FOH duty next week but I expect no drama..

[althemusicwizard]

Hey VT,
Where did you get the desk repaired? What was done to it? Was it pricey?
I have a garage to sort out, then a rack to build in the studio (to house the mixers), then I'll post some pics.
Cheers,
Al

[VTypeV4]

[b]K. Edwards Electronics Engineers[/b]

Blythe Works, New Haden, Draycott Cross Road
Cheadle
Stoke-on-trent
Map
52.97868
-2.01244

[b]K. Edwards Electronics Engineers[/b]
[size=2]

Blythe Bridge - 3.7 miles away[/size][size=2]

Manchester - 31.8 miles away[/size]
ST10 1PN

It was done ( I think at least ) by these guys but I used local music shop 'The Rhythm House' as my go between. I have frequented there since I was a teenager and regularly mix the owners group so it was easier for me to take it there and let them sort it for me. The electronics company have done repairs for me previously via the music shop and it's always been reasonably cheap, a quick turnaround and a job done right so I have no issue in recommending them.

As for what was done to it? What wasn't done to it! Ha! It's had a partial power supply rebuild, including the notorious main connector, a number of replacement ICs, capacitors and components. Some of the gain pots were replaced as more than a few were ropey and noisy and a number of the fader connectors were changed too. Some of the PCBs had poor tracks and dry joints which were a nightmare, I was told the desk had been dropped and damaged at some point in it's past and poorly repaired. All this is apparently what caused the occasional 'twitchyness' and ultimately the failure of the unit. It seems rock solid now.

It was a bit pricey but I was told he's spent many hours into putting all of the faults right and I have every faith that it's all true. I did consider just taking the cards out (2 x ADAT, 1 x AES and 1 x Cascade) and meter bridge off it and getting another for around the same money as the repair but investing in this one means I now have one thats (almost) as good as new.

I'll take some pix of it back in service this week, it needs to earn it's crust! Plus It'll give my 328XD a rest and an opportunity for me to clean it too. I've become a bit precious with my Soundcraft and have considered getting another 02R so I can have the XD at home but finding another Yamaha with the meterbridge and 2 x ADAT cards for reasonable money is few and far between.Not to mention that when they do, they're collection only from Cornwall or the Shetland isles!

Oh, and as a bonus, all my data on the Yamaha was safe too, it's all still there!

Cheers, Matt

[VTypeV4]

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Me doing a bit of editing during our recording session on Monday just gone..

Both the Soundcraft and the Yamaha behaved faultlessly (as always) although Pro Tools threw a little wobbly half way through. Luckily no data was lost and next to no time wasted. I took the time to make a new 'studio' patch setup on the Soundcraft which used a more detailed and alternative channel set, post fader / EQ sends and use of the Dynamics on the direct outs. I didn't go mad with them, more as a 'massage' so to speak..

This is the first time I've used the gear as a true studio style multi-track setup layering the parts (rather than live 'all in one go') individually and it worked great as long as I didn't rely on monitoring the input I was recording from the MOTU / 02R due to the lag. It's minimal but enough to put me off. Direct monitoring at source via a toy Behringer desk used as a headphone bus at the stage end sorted that issue as well as being used the playback monitor..

[url="http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/Macro%20XD%2002R_zpsoa7sbgnq.jpg.html"][/url]

I appreciate this would probably fit better in the recording section but I wanted to show the 02R earning it's crust after extensive reconstruction surgery. Working great! I love the 02R, it's a great bit of kit despite being long in the tooth these days..

Edited September 4, 2015 by VTypeV4

[VTypeV4]

So, I stood my trusty Soundcraft 328XD down this evening to try something a little different and somewhat newer..

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Allen & Heath Qu-24..

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I'll talk about it in detail another time but in a nutshell - its's awesome! I'm very impressed with the ease of use, the sonics and quality of build. Sadly, it's not mine, it belongs to a mate who was kind enought to lend it this evening.

The only reason I won't be rushing out to buy one is the lack of direct outs on ADAT or analog so live recordings are out of the question with my existing MOTU setup. Shame really as the rest of it really is ace.

[mike257]

Have you looked into an M/X32 or the new Digico S21? Onboard USB interfaces for recording with no extra kit needed.

[mike257]

In fact, I've just looked and the QU series will all do this too!

[VTypeV4]

Hi Mike,

I looked at the Yamaha 01V96i too but all of the above are beyond my budget at the min.

I've heard many a good thing about the X32 but there's something about it that doesn't float my boat - it's not because it's a Behringer. I know a couple of chaps who love them but for the money I think I'd rather the Qu-24 or even a 2nd hand LS-9 32 with the 16-way ADAT card.

As I'm sure you've seen, I've had goood experience with Digico gear although I've never looked at the S21, I didn't know it existed!

Maybe next year..

[EBS_freak]

The QU series of A&H records to onboard USB as stated above. I seem to recall it's limited to the first 18 tracks... But! - USB into your computer and you can get the track by track and L/R into your chosen DAW.

For "traditional" digital I/O in A&H, then you are into the realm of the GLD with the expansion cards. Not cheap... but awesomely good - and they have dropped significantly in value since their first release so more affordable than ever.

[VTypeV4]

Oooh.. GLD

Sadly I've never had the pleasure but I thumbed through the catalogue when they came out a few years back. I may have salivated a little as I thought it looked a far more slick and 'finished' in comparison to the iLive setup. I've had a look round the iLive (T112?) when I dealt with the support band for 'Fozzy' as their engineer used one (I was on an LS-9 at the time) but felt a little underwhelmed by the british product sadly..

I understand that both of my existing consoles are getting a 'little vintage' but to be fair, I'm still happy with them for both live and recording mixes. With the Motu, I'm running up to 18 in and up to 26 out not including FX returns.. I'm also considering a similar setup for home rather than having to travel to work during the winter. A MOTU 2408 plus PCI card can be gotten cheap these days so one of those plus an 01V96 with ADAT card (not the i - they're still pricey) might be a winner.

[VTypeV4]

Forgot to mention..

I bagged another ADAT card really (like £25!) cheap off the dreaded ebay last week so I swapped out the redundant cascade card. I don't really need it but It gives me another 8 in / out should I need it in the future.

Quite fancy a TC Unity card for it too..

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1449162556' post='2921236']
Oooh.. GLD

Sadly I've never had the pleasure but I thumbed through the catalogue when they came out a few years back. I may have salivated a little as I thought it looked a far more slick and 'finished' in comparison to the iLive setup. I've had a look round the iLive (T112?) when I dealt with the support band for 'Fozzy' as their engineer used one (I was on an LS-9 at the time) but felt a little underwhelmed by the british product sadly..
[/quote]

They are lovely - certainly more user friendly than the LS9. I used it pretty much exclusively for a couple of years... and it's a really well thought out console. The only thing that I find is a bit of a shame is that you can't track to USB like the QU - you can only map a mixed output to it - e.g. L/R . For full track by track out, the Dante solution is super (although paying extra for the card is a bit of a bind!) - just plug the ethernet into your computer, load up reaper and hit record. Nice - but not quite as practical as a USB out.

For quick mixes and recording on the move, I tend to just use my DL32R now, it's just a lot lighter and easier to lug around... - my GLD spends most it's time in the flightcase now.

Edited December 5, 2015 by EBS_freak

[VTypeV4]

Thats what I liked the look of with the 01v96i, the fact it's compact and capable for mobile applications.. I'm sure prices will come down in time - LS-9 is plummeting at the min.. Lugging the 02R about isn't an option as it weighs 8 tonnes..

[mike257]

Used a QU for the first time last week - was on a last minute gig so didn't have time to do any homework. Found it pretty straight forward to walk up to though. Didn't have time to get fully in to the available features (had to build the stage, rig the lighting and then just get the hell on with it!) but the important stuff was easy enough to find.

I think I'd still take an M32/X32 given the choice - the QU doesn't appear to have the same flexibility in routing and effects use. Would have no problem using one if it was on offer though!

The S21 does look ace, I was booked in for training when they had it at Adlib recently but ended up having to go cover a gig. Feedback I've heard has been positive though!

[VTypeV4]

Just been on the Digico site.. Oh my! Oh my!!

[VTypeV4]

On the subject of Digico, I'm using it again on Wednesday at the Victoria Hall again..Yay!

I'll try to take some more pix this time..

[mike257]

Excellent stuff! I keep missing chances to use them. X32 all this weekend for me! Does the job for the gig it's on though.

[VTypeV4]

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My gig at The Victoria Hall last night (16 Dec). Same lovely Digico SD8, same lovely Lab Gruppen amps although the L'acoustic ARCS rig has gone, I was on what are still my favourite speakers - EAW 650 and the partner 2x15 subs. All went without drama I'm happy to report. There's a threat the SD8 might be for sale and to be replaced with an S21 in the next 12 months or so..

Sorry about the quality of some of the pix, I'm pretty useless with a camera..

[VTypeV4]

Does anyone have experience of the UNIT~Y card for 02R? More specifically, the Finalizer section of it.. Any good? Any quirks? Any issues? As good as the hardware version? Any thoughts welcome good, bad or indifferent..

I'm watching an 02R on th'bay which has the meterbridge, dual ADAT cards, an AES card and most importantly the UnitY. As mentioned previously, I'm considering standing the Soundcraft down and running two of the Yamahas instead.

[mike257]

God, that's going back. Pretty sure we had one in the studio 02R back in my days as a teenage studio assistant but couldn't tell you with any confidence how it would stand up now. Teenage me wasn't discerning enough to know and a decade-and-a-bit gap won't do wonders for accurate recollection of it either. I wouldn't blame you for taking an extra Yamaha over the Soundcraft though, if nothing else for the per-channel dynamics processing that the Spirit lacks.