Yamaha 02R Digital Mixing Desk..

[VTypeV4]

Thanks for the input Mike..

I've bit the bullet and managed to find another 02R with the spec required (meter bridge, dual ADAT cards and a UNITY) for reasonable money from eBay. I'll collect it on Thursday! I'll miss my Soundcraft but it's not going far as I've agreed to sell it to my apprentice - he's getting a bargain as I've sold it cheap.

I'm not overly concerned about the dynamics setup as the Soundcraft is the XD version which has them on every input and group output but it doesn't allow for sidechain / alternative patching which I think is a great feature on the Yamaha.

I might look out for another cascade card and link them at some point.

I'll post some pix when it lands.

[mike257]

That's pretty much the setup we had - a cascaded pair, but with TDIF cards and a rack of Tascam DA88/DA38. How I learned to mix! Oh the joys of making endless locate points and programming punch-ins on digital tape and waiting for the three of them to all sync up! Kids these days don't know how easy they've got it, haha!

[VTypeV4]

Thankfully I've never had the pleasure of digital tape machines!

When I started at colllege many years back in the late '90s, I had the pleasure of learning how to do it on an Allen n Grief GS3/V, minimalist out-board and a half inch Fostex 16-track analogue tape machine. I didn't really learn to mix on it but it did teach me how to use a desk. Oldskool with no drag n drop, very limited inserts / sends, no auto sync tap delay, no automation etc!

Talking of young'uns, my apprentice (he's only 18) can't imagine a world that doesn't have muliple bands of fully parametric EQ, dynamics and at a glance metering on every channel and group not to mention a save / recall facility!

[mike257]

We eventually ditched the DA88s for a Tascam MX2424, which had it's own set of interesting quirks and issues - I spent a lot of time on the phone to Tascam!

It's a different world now, makes me feel a right dinosaur. If we wanted to edit the structure of a song, I used to sample bar or four bar long chunks of tracks into our trusty Akai S6000 and rebuild a whole song in bits like that, triggered from MIDI running off the steam-powered PC we had. Five minute Pro Tools job now. Oh, the early 2000s!!

[VTypeV4]

I'm a bit of a dinosaur too but I like to think I'm bridging the gap a little by using modern(ish) sofware / interface in combination with the 'oldskool' 02Rs. Love it!

At home in about '99 / '00 we had an early SoundBlaster Live! that would record a stereo in and accomodate 16 audio channels in an oldskool version of Cubase which was about a million times better than the nasty Amstrad 4-track tape recorder thing my step-dad used to have.

The simple fact is I very much prefer putting a mix together on a 'real' console because thats what I've done most nights of the week for many years now and the Yamaha (for all it's strengths and weaknesses) fits the bill perfectly so surely if one is good, two must be awesome!? Ha..

[mike257]

God, when I was at college back then, I'd have killed for a Soundblaster Live, with that front panel that sat in one of your drive bays! I definitely don't miss MOST of doing it the old fashioned way, I certainly wouldn't ditch a DAW for countless hours twiddling that Akai, but I don't think I'll ever be happy mixing on a mouse.

I don't do much recording these days but I'm in the process of doing promo stuff for three or four function bands I work with, I'm probably going to pinch an X32 from a bloke I do some work for and bounce it all out to mix on that. Guarantee I'll have something I'm happy with in half the time that I'd spend dicking about doing it solely on the computer screen.

[VTypeV4]

I've had many a happy hour making music with a SoundBlaster Live, they used to work really well once you'd got them confiigured to how you liked them setup. I still have the non-interface version in my home computer as my MIDI in although I don't use it's audio processing anymore. Great bit of kit!

A friend that runs a local venue has bought an X32 recently and I've said I'll go down and have a look. Lots of other folks I know have bought them too and don't have a bad word for them so I'm gonna have a play to make my own opinion as I have zero time with one - I don't think I've ever even seen one in the flesh. I've never been sure of them as they're almost too good to be true but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong and there's little doubt they've raised the bar in the bang for buck stakes.

I've been to collect my second Yamaha (and popped into the Ace Cafe too!) today which I've been excited about since I won the eBay auction at the weekend. It's come complete with all original copies of the manuals and appears to be in great condition - apparently the chap who sold it bought it brand new many years back. I shudder to think how much that would have been 15 years ago as it's fully loaded. North of 8 grand? I could buy and M7-CL or two and a bit LS-9 32s for that!

I'll take some pix tomorrow and spend half the day configuring it to how I want it although I've already sorted the TC card to how I want it.

[mike257]

Yeah, the X32 causes some divided opinion and heated debate! I think for what it is (in it's price range/market positioning) it's excellent. I'm not on board with the evangelists who claim that it's up there with the higher end stuff, but given a choice of the major players in immediate competition with it (Allen & Heath QU, Soundcraft Si series, Yamaha TF, those Presonus monstrosities) it'd be my first choice from the list. Have probably used them on a few hundred shows by now, including stints as an in-house in a 300 cap rock venue, function gigs, corporate work and for me it aces the opposition on it's feature set and routing flexibility. Obviously, given the budget I'd take something tastier, but I won't grumble if I've got to mix a gig on one. Does everything you need. The M32 is ace too - it's the same software, more or less the same physical layout, but better build quality and souped up internals. Replaced an LS-9 with one in one of my regular venues last year, much much more pleasant to mix on!

[VTypeV4]

I've read a few reviews and debates on the net regarding the X32 and it certainly has caused some controvosity! As I said, I've not had a go on one yet but I certainly take my hat off to the people at Behringer for raisng their own game and upseting the existing players too.

I've spent a bit of time setting / reconfiguring my second 02R today and it seems to be working just fine. Everything meters correctly, all ins and outs seem to work as they should and the desk seems to be in good health so I'll put it to work next week.

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[VTypeV4]

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The new Yamaha in action this evening running FOH. I'm very pleased with it as it's performed faultlessly and the fact that I now own two makes me extra happy. Way more I/O than I need (I could nearly run everything I need from just one) but the potential for expansion is pretty exciting.

[VTypeV4]

I've just bagged a second cascade card for the vast sum of £19.99! Plus a fiver postage of course but I'm really happy with such a bargain..

I'm having a major re-organize this weekend as my setup has become a bit messy. I've built a new table / surface to put it all on plus I'm gonna gut the amp rack and clean the amps, re-sort and tidy all the wires around the back of the soundcard and attempt to make it all much neater wih easier access.. I'll take some pix of the process..

[VTypeV4]

The last 12 or so hours work..

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It's nearly all finished but there's a few detail changes I need to sort but I'll wrap them up tomorrow / weds.

[mike257]

That takes me back. Looking great!

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1457434391' post='2998429']
That takes me back. Looking great!
[/quote]

Thanks Mike.

My second cascade card arrived this morning so I'll try setting that up this week.. Winner!

[mike257]

How's the cascading going?

I had serious desk overkill at the weekend. Little acoustic show in the small front bar of a multi room venue I tech at. The middle sized room had a gig on, tying up our M32, so I had to hoof the Avid Profile and it's mix rack through from our 1000ish cap main room to mix an acoustic gig for 40 people. Used six whole inputs. Sounded bloody good though!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1458819126' post='3011156']
How's the cascading going?

I had serious desk overkill at the weekend. Little acoustic show in the small front bar of a multi room venue I tech at. The middle sized room had a gig on, tying up our M32, so I had to hoof the Avid Profile and it's mix rack through from our 1000ish cap main room to mix an acoustic gig for 40 people. Used six whole inputs. Sounded bloody good though!
[/quote]

Desk overkill is grand. I've used a GLD80 for an an acoustic singer/songwriter. 2 whole inputs.

Im wanting to know if there are people slaving cheapo 4 channel mixers to create a 32 channel desk... Probably not... but would probably go viral if you instagrammed/tweeted/facebook etc it.

[VTypeV4]

I'll be honest, I still haven't done the cascade thing yet as I've been on pretty much every night plus I've had a few recordings to mix.. I'll get it covered in the next fwe weeks.

I love desk overkill - people say 'why?' and the best possible response has to be 'why not!?' Ha! I did a corporate job on an LS9 - 32 a few years back and all I had through that were two lecturn mic and one hand-held radio mic. I'm sure much like me you'd rather be over rather than under specified.

[VTypeV4]

Well still no cascading as I've been terribly lazy but i've bagged another Unity card. The seller was unsure of the license status which un-nerved me a little but they have said if it doesn't work as it should, they'll offer me a full refund which seems more than fair enough. It also comes with the 2.16 operating chips so hopefully we should be all systems go,

Forgot to add, it's an Adat / Tdif version with extended I/O..

Edited April 1, 2016 by VTypeV4

[VTypeV4]

Unity card and 2.16 chips installed into the second (well, first really) 02R and we're on! The card has both engines active and both are set to M2000 which as this console is my live console, it's the perfect setup!

As it's Wednesday, tonight has been open mic / acoustic night and a perfect opportunity to try a couple of those luscious TC reverb patches and on a couple of appropriate occasions a subtle bit of TC chorus on picked guitar parts. I left the internal Yamaha FX muted all evening to concentrate better on the TC effects and they certainly didn't disappoint to the point where one of the regular attendees commented and asked what was different and how big it sounded.

Lastly, despite previous plans, I don't think I'll bother cascading the consoles as they now both have a UnitY card and if I install my cascade cards into each, I'll lose the extended routing capabilities. This will cost me channels that I'm not prepared to give up and almost defeat the point of two consoles so I think they may go back on eBay. I'll also have to give up my AES / EBU cards if I cascade as I'll run out of card slots too.

All in all, it's all good!

[Dad3353]

This has been/still is a fascinating topic to follow; I sometimes even flatter myself into thinking that I understand parts of it..! I've never used a digital console 'in anger', and admire the mental translation from trad desks to 'virtual'. I spent a good few years as a 'lighter', using a laptop for programming events, as well as the traditional lighting desks, and can well appreciate just how exhilarating it can be to have an evening go off well after having made some discovery or stumbled upon a corker of an idea.
Thanks for posting, and keep it up; it all makes for a very good read.
Cheers.

[VTypeV4]

Thank you kindly, sir..

I'm a total convert on the digital mixing front, it wouldn't upset me to never touch an analogue console again. I occasionally look on eBay for higher end analogue / VCA style desks such as Allen & Heath ML and Soundcraft MH models and consider a rack full of outboard but then thankfully reality sets in! They're very cheap these days considering they were 10 to twenty-grands worth of premium console not so long ago. Incidentally, the biggest console I ever used was an Allen & Heath ML5000 which was a 56 channel monster.

I suppose the same could be said of the 02R (and my former 328XD) on the money front, both worth a fraction of their new cost but I guess thats progress. The biggest 'faller' I've seen in the last 18 months or so is the (not so) beloved Yamaha LS-9 in both 16 and 32 channel guises. I've seen 16s go for as little as £1250 and even 32s in the £1850 zone which considering what they'll do (not how they do it!) is a monsterous amount of bang for buck..

As for my consoles, I don't see me changing them soon and I know I said that about the Soundcraft but the capabilities of the two Yamaha desks is perfect for my setup. I'm very comfortable with how they work plus the bonus capablity of the Unity card especially with it's extended I/O rivals more modern setups.

I'll snap some more pix when I get chance.

[VTypeV4]

Just spent the weekend working at the Box in Crewe for Kirk Brandon's Spear of destiny as part of their annual Westworld Weekender. A cracking few days for all involved! It's a gig I've done for the group many times but just thought i'd share that this was where my digital journey began back a good few years back..

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Adrian's battered XD that I've had the pleasure of mixing on the past few days and the very first digital console i ever used. Half the paint is missing and it's a little grubby but everything still works just fine and it's rock solid in operation. These are old but they're still a lovely desk to use and I'd happily take one anywhere to mix anyone.

I've made next to no changes on the 02R front, I just made sure my outs via ADAT on slot 3 in the first console are recived without issue into the extended I/O section of the Unity card in slot 4 on the second 02R. I've simply decided to run LR (although groups worked too) of the first into the second console as I can send it straight to the LR of that second console so any FX or processing I do is still done at source without any compromises on inputs or complications that would arise using the cascade cards. Doing it this way will enable me to run 24 channels from the stage and via my ADA8000 and I'll be able to record 26 simultaneous channels if needed and 28 mix channels on play back.

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Token 02R pic from a few days after I collected the second one..

Edited May 8, 2016 by VTypeV4

[mike257]

I had my trusty old 01V out last night to mix an Oasis tribute on a corporate gig in Manchester. The company I was working for had another gig on upstairs featuring Fleur East (off the X Factor, I believe), who had specced an SD7 for a tracks/vocals gig! They didn't get it, of course.

Got some more work in Manchester Academy coming up soon so I'll be back on my preferred Soundcraft Vi-series. Love those things. Definitely come a long way from the Spirit 328!

[VTypeV4]

Never had any experience with the 01V / 96 / i but the 96 and i models look very comprehensive in a compact frame size. They seem to hold their price too as I've not seen one go for less than about £450 on ebay. Kinda fancy one as a go anywhere do anything for the odd job. Which one do you have Mike, the old silver one or a newer model?

Love Digico, I really liked the look of the S21 as it seems to be the best of all worlds - like an SD-8 in a compact frame size. What did the company send rather than the SD-7? A Yam LS-9? Ha!

Sadly, I've never had the pleasure of a VI although they look grand.

For the daily grind (ok, it's not that bad really) though I'll be retaining my trusty 02Rs especially with their Unity cards as I'm really happy witth the extra capabilities and top quality FX (I like the Yam SPX style FX but the TC ones are just stunning) they give the consoles especially with the extra I/O.

As a last note, I spoke to the people at TC Electronic about my cards and they were very quick to respond and very helpful so a big thumbs up to the customer support dept at TC.

[mike257]

My 01V is the old silver one - a little long in the tooth now but you can pick them up for ~£200 all day long, and in terms of what else you can get for that money, they're head and shoulders above! Frequently use it for conferences, small function band jobs, anything that doesn't justify a 'big' desk going out. Very handy and has pulled me out of trouble on many occasions when I'd otherwise have been saddled with a little analogue board with no decent EQ to run a stack of lavs on.

As for Fleur East, she got a QU-24, which was perfectly acceptable for vocals and track at a little private corporate gig in Manchester!

The Vi are brilliant desks - I really like the interface, it's designed so you can see a LOT of information at once without any of it getting in the way or being too distracting. One of my favourites to work on.

Good to hear TC are keeping the service up after being absorbed into the Music Group machine!