Barefaced reassurance

[alexclaber]

I wouldn't put it like that - you'll never have a problem hearing a dual Compact stack!

I would say that two Compacts generate a huge sound which tends to surround a band whilst a Midget+Compact sounds more like a lone Compact but with more of everything. (That may seem counter-intuitive but it's because when you stack multiple matching cabs up the lows increase quicker than the mids and highs because the lows acoustically couple, improving efficiency down there).

Regarding the watts you need, it isn't about turning up loud, it's about having enough power that your amp can push the cabs hard enough to get the SPL in the lows that you need. Halve the size of the stack and you'll double the power you need to reach the same LF SPL - so if you were using more than half your amp's power before you halved the stack size then you won't be able to get the same LF SPL with the smaller stack. If you weren't then you'll be fine.

[Lozz196]

Yep, that`s what I meant to say Alex, but without actually managing to

[alexclaber]

I thought that might have been the case!

[RandomBass]

Might have been me. I had a Compact/Midget setup which was great, but really wanted to see what dual Compacts would do. After discussions with Alex, I decided to take the plunge and very grateful for his advice.

I've always loved the sound of the Compact, and now have simply have more of that with having 2 of them. They really fill the sound out, enveloping the band - and that delicious mid range clarity that cuts through effortlessly. Don't get me wrong, Compact/Midget is great - but just not for me or what I was looking for.

I'd recommend getting a compact to start with and using that for a while, which is what I did for a year: It's plenty loud and clear on its own.

As an aside, I sometimes run the 2 compacts with a Micro VR head - most enjoyable. Probably better sounding than my ABM500 in some ways.

Cheers

Geoff

[woodyratm]

This is a really interesting thread. I'm thinking of going for an orange bass terror with a barefaced of some sort. I'm wanting something really small tbh (i always have PA Support - so just need to hear myself).
Would the midget be suitable for this? Need to hear/play a BF cab too. Sigh.

Should say its synth rock i play. So maybe the Compact would be better?

[RandomBass]

To be honest, if it's just stage monitor you are after then a Midget with the Terror Bass would be an ideal choice, I reckon: small, loud & light. Why not make use of the one-month money back trial offer on a Midget? That way you get to use it in proper gig situations, and if it isn't for you, then back it goes.

Cheers

Geoff

[chris_b]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1323206523' post='1460656']
....i always have PA Support....
[/quote]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]What happens when you don't?[/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Even when I do festivals with the duo and DI, the rig is always in the car, just in case. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]

[sk8]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1323206523' post='1460656']
This is a really interesting thread. I'm thinking of going for an orange bass terror with a barefaced of some sort. I'm wanting something really small tbh (i always have PA Support - so just need to hear myself).
Would the midget be suitable for this? Need to hear/play a BF cab too. Sigh.

Should say its synth rock i play. So maybe the Compact would be better?
[/quote]

Ibanez Promethean combo. Job done

[woodyratm]

Would the better ideal be to go for a compact? Long as it was light (eg 1 hand lift!) i'd be happy.

I hate GAS.

[4 Strings]

Just to say the Compact can be lifted with literally one finger. When I was showing off my cabs on Saturday (while making the point they cost only£100 less than my car and that was because there was £100 off the Compact!) we were playing around and I could lift both with one finger using both hands with ease.

My lad plays bass and couldn't believe the weight, asking if they were shop dummies made from foam. There may be lighter around but I've not seen them and wouldn't know where to go to try.

[redstriper]

If it's deep bass tone you want, I recommend the 3015LF driver instead of the 3015.
I have 2 very light and small Flite cabs, one loaded with the 3015 and the other with a 3015LF.
The 3015LF sounds deeper and a little quieter, a very smooth old school tone.
The 3015 is more middy and modern sounding and the two cabs sound great together with my LM11.

[ead]

Just ordered the second Compact to go for the Compact/Compact stack. The first one is great, two should be awesome!

[4 Strings]

Alex is pretty busy at the moment!

Just an update before I plunge for anything at all; I've swapped the Midget for a Midget T. Didn't think I wanted the highs but wondered that I might. Very glad I did (although the little stack now DOES cost what I paid for the car!) as those 'flattering' sounds are now readily available at the tweak of a knob. Just read that back!

Still playing though.

[cytania]

" the distortion I heard was, Alex said, my amp"

Can 4Strings or Alex enlarge on what this means please? It may somehow tie in with my amp woes, particularly the way the cab was fine with a friend's amp but not with my SWR. How does my Compact bring out distortion in an amp when cheap GK cabinets don't?

[alexclaber]

The more accurate sounding a cab and the greater its linear power handling then the more it'll show up the deficiencies of an amp. Cheaper cabs tend to have much greater colouration at low levels and then as you turn things up they become non-linear much sooner which increases the colouration further, and the amp distortion can be hidden to a degree behind that colouration.

We saw this with our own original models - the Big One was actually slightly louder than the Compact but most bassists needed a bigger amp to drive it because the Compact would allow you to occasionally clip your amp without nasty sounds whilst the Big One would show up that clipping due to its greater transparency.

[cytania]

Many thanks Alex, you've shone some clear light on my amp/cab buzz mystery.

The thought going round my head is 'how could I have blown the speaker when I've always been so careful'.

Perhaps the repairer that can't hear the problem also has a non-linear/coloured speaker set...

[4 Strings]

I'm non-linear coloured when I get back from my holidays.

What does non-linear power handling actually mean?

Edited December 14, 2011 by 4 Strings

[alexclaber]

I started writing a response to this but it was getting very complicated and taking too long to make it comprehensible! I shall write something more detailed when I have more time. But for now look at these links:

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-non-linearity.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-non-linearity.htm[/url]

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-power-handling.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-power-handling.htm[/url]

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm[/url]

Realistically I'd say the Midget has about three times the real world power handling (i.e. the power handling before the response becomes too non-linear to be useful) of the 2.5XL so with enough power behind it it'll play louder, fatter and deeper.

If response stayed linear then with a 4% efficient cab (decent 2x10") then 50W in would get 2W out, 100W in gets 4W out, 200W in gets 8W out, 400W in gets 16W out etc. In reality I think the 2.5XL would start going gently non-linear at about 100W, clearly non-linear at about 200W and hit a brick wall of output at about 300W (so adding more power in gets no more power out, just more and more distortion), so 100W in gets 3.5W out, 200W in gets 5W out, 400W in gets 6W out, 600W in gets 6W out (and probably speaker death!) Midget is maybe 2.5% efficient so 100W in gets 2.5W out, 200W in gets 5W out, 400W in gets 8W out, 600W in gets 12W out. All numbers approximate but the comparison should be accurate enough to be indicative of actual behaviour in real world scenarios.

[ShergoldSnickers]

Been trying to think through the mechanics of linearity breakdown; does non-linearity start when:

1. Reaching the useable excursion limits - I would think the suspension would start to exert a stronger resistive force as the suspension stops being as elastic at it is when further inside excursion limits or at rest.

2. The voicecoil is starting to move out of regions of full strength magnetic flux - again at either end of the excursion.

3. Heating of the voicecoil producing more resistance.

4. Port airflow becoming very turbulent.

Can't think of any more of the top of my guesswork laden bonce - but this is why I ask, to find out. Fascinatingly geeky stuff, love it.

[jjay69]

Im loving this thread almost like its a great novel and can't wait for the next chapter ! i think im almost at the point of making descisions of my own regarding upgrading my cabs to BF (long overdue) anyone interested in a couple of Trace cabs 2x10 and 15 !