skej21 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Just watched this on youtube and think Wooten has a really good point. HIs observations of how an audience interacts with the music/musicians is really good and I like that he considers not only the music that he is making with his fellow musicians, but also how the audience can feel involved, just through what he chooses to play. Do you agree with VW that 'a bass solo should be based on the groove' so that the audience stay interested? Do you think that as the musician, you should be able to take control musically and the audience should appreciate that without the need for you to consider how to keep them interested too? I'd like your thoughts, as musicians and punters please http://youtu.be/2U2cOVgaKBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 My experience agrees with him. Not even grooving helped me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1322220391' post='1448058'] Just watched this on youtube and think Wooten has a really good point. HIs observations of how an audience interacts with the music/musicians is really good and I like that he considers not only the music that he is making with his fellow musicians, but also how the audience can feel involved, just through what he chooses to play. Do you agree with VW that 'a bass solo should be based on the groove' so that the audience stay interested? Do you think that as the musician, you should be able to take control musically and the audience should appreciate that without the need for you to consider how to keep them interested too? I'd like your thoughts, as musicians and punters please [media]http://youtu.be/2U2cOVgaKBM[/media] [/quote] I think it depends on the audience & the musicians your playing with. If you've got a strong band that can groove without the bass for instance, with just keys guitar & drums, then you have enough freedom to go off and do what you like. But if the group your playing with aren't conscious of this then it's really really easy to loose the groove of a song. With the audience, if your playing to a room full of musicians, they are much more likely to appreciate what your doing or trying to say with your playing. Whereas if you playing to a room full of average Joes, as soon as that danceable groove goes they will loose interest and your going to have to bring it back. There's a time & a place for a bass solo, and most of the ones i've seen have just been in the wrong time or place of a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 He is 100% bang on. The only people who like all that fancy widdly sh*t are other musicians who are probably a bit deluded. I really hate solo bass, EXCEPT, if it's grooving, same with drum solos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1322222304' post='1448109'] There's a time & a place for a bass solo, and most of the ones i've seen have just been in the wrong time or place of a set. [/quote] Totally agree. A couple of the bands I've been in have fallen into the trap of playing jazz/blues etc and the guitar and keys get a solo, so the try to make me do one so I don't feel left out. This seems to be more the case if they think you're a good enough musician to play a solo comfortably without fearing it. I always refuse in those situations though, because as you've said, people are sick of MOST solos (regardless of instrument) in that situation and want the 'head' or melody back by then, so adding in a bass solo is usually the best way to clear the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Foster Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I always hate taking solos in a band context. This affirms what I need to do next time, and maybe I'll enjoy it more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree with what he says. Leave solos to the lead instruments, and leave us at what we`re best at. People always think they`re dancing to the drums - but the bass has one helluva lot to do with it. Billie Jean with a different bassline - undoubtable not as groovable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 i understand what he's saying, but why is there an assumption that bass is all about dancing and groove ? not all music is made to dance to... ...especially if i'm playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Spot On. This is an excerpt from his Groove Workshop DVD. If you see the first "lesson" he gets his students to do on the DVD, this will make even more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1322222742' post='1448118'] I really hate solo bass, EXCEPT, if it's grooving, same with drum solos. [/quote] Exactly. The reason why (IMO) most drum solos are excruciating is they dump the groove of the song in about 2 seconds of starting the solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1322228575' post='1448257'] Exactly. The reason why (IMO) most drum solos are excruciating is they dump the groove of the song in about 2 seconds of starting the solo. [/quote] Solo = 'Let me show you what I've been practising this week. I have manage to get VERY fast at it. I bet you wish you could do this too. Please visit nigelclutterbuck.com after the show' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote]...and no-one will ever get up and go to the bar.[/quote] And the landlord won't pay you to play any more gigs there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostis Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [sub][quote name='silddx' timestamp='1322228886' post='1448263'] Solo = 'Let me show you what I've been practising this week. I have manage to get VERY fast at it. I bet you wish you could do this too. Please visit nigelclutterbuck.com after the show' [/quote][/sub] [sub]Sorry, silddx, but I can't agree about this statement.[/sub] [sub]I think that a bass solo can contain just as much interest, musicality and sensitiveness as any other instrument's at all. I love a good sax solo, I love a good guitar solo and I [/sub][sub]of course I adore a good bass solo.[/sub] [sub]As for Wooten's words, it is possibly true. But if the audience has got the possibility to see something really amazing (Tom Kennedy's shred, for instance), then they will surely like it. Of course not many bass players have got that capacity, so for the rest of us we will have to keep to the groove, just like VW says.[/sub] Edited November 25, 2011 by frostis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I got mixed feelings on this one. As a muso i like to play solos. When i go to a gig i want to hear grooving. For me one short solo on the bass is enough for an evening but if i were listening to a maestro then i'd want to hear more than that. You asked - "Do you think that as the musician, you should be able to take control musically and the audience should appreciate that". No i really disagree with that. The audience don't have to do diddly if they don't want to. Making assumptions about what the audience should or should not do is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='frostis' timestamp='1322230089' post='1448287'] [sub]Sorry, silddx, but I can't agree about this statement.[/sub] [sub]I think that a bass solo can contain just as much interest, musicality and sensitiveness as any other instrument's at all. I love a good sax solo, I love a good guitar solo and I [/sub][sub]of course I adore a good bass solo.[/sub] [sub]As for Wooten's words, it is possibly true. But if the audience has got the possibility to see something really amazing (Tom Kennedy's shred, for instance), then they will surely like it. Of course not many bass players have got that capacity, so for the rest of us we will have to keep to the groove, just like VW says.[/sub] [/quote] Fair comments, especially the last point. However, as a solo instrument, the bass is pretty damn ugly, the timbre is terrible, the definition beyond playing 8th notes is crap, unless you have lots of treble and avoid the lower notes. That's why some folks are adding strings, playing chords and tapping with two hands, adding treble and chorus, just so their bass playing can sound more like a regular guitar. There are people who like to eat fermented whale blubber for breakfast, but they are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree with Wooten, I like the 'solos' that groove. I used to love all that twiddly stuff but then learnt its not about all that and the bass has to hold everything down and groove. Solos to me say 'Look at me, aren't I great at shredding this scale at mach 5!' Of course not all soloists are like this. I always decline a solo and instead work something with the drums. Some triplet stabs, pauses, phrases, accent certain drum parts. Something that resolves on the one and come down with the groove again. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree with what VW says in the video from YT. My opinion, but if the bass player is taking a solo, it needs to be musical & not "check out how bad my chops are". I saw a bass player at a pub gig 7/8 years ago take a solo which started off quite musical, but then it descended into a flurry of slapping & two handed tapping at which point I started thinking "bored now". Which was a shame because he & the band were really very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1322231463' post='1448321'] There are people who like to eat fermented whale blubber for breakfast, but they are few and far between. [/quote] Quote of The Basschat Week, methinks. I think just about the only time you can get away with a bass solo - with just the bass playing that is - is if you piece some very memorable basslines together, as a kind of medley. Take The Jam/Buce Foxton for example - Eton Rifles, Town Called Malice, Tube Station, It`s Too Bad. Put them in a medley, and played to the right crowd of course, that could work. It could also fall flat on it` ar*e if no-one knew the songs of course. For me, there`s only ever been one bass solo I`ve liked in a song, and that`s this, at 1:15 - 1:40 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_w-FYZlLsI&feature=fvst[/media] Edited November 25, 2011 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 All solos - no matter what instrument - are only worthwhile if they're interesting (not just technical) and well-played (not just played fast). A good solo is a very difficult thing to pull off. But good solos are possible - even on bass - and so it's not as simple as saying "bass solos = bad". I mean, a bad solo is a bad solo. And a brilliant solo is, well, brilliant. The difference between them is down to the musician, not the instrument. Surely? The bass doesn't lend itself to soloing as easily as guitar, perhaps. But that doesn't mean it can't be played as a solo instrument and capture people's attention, or 'wow' a crowd. And of course, personal taste has a huge influence on this. I can't imagine I'd like to sit through a 10-minute tambourine solo, but somebody, somewhere, would no doubt love it! And good luck to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1322233355' post='1448368'] Quote of The Basschat Week, methinks. I think just about the only time you can get away with a bass solo - with just the bass playing that is - is if you piece some very memorable basslines together, as a kind of medley. Take The Jam/Buce Foxton for example - Eton Rifles, Town Called Malice, Tube Station, It`s Too Bad. Put them in a medley, and played to the right crowd of course, that could work. It could also fall flat on it` ar*e if no-one knew the songs of course. For me, there`s only ever been one bass solo I`ve liked in a song, and that`s this, at 1:15 - 1:40 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_w-FYZlLsI&feature=fvst[/media] [/quote] You see to me, thats not a solo. I'd be more inclined to call it a bass break. This for me is by far my favourite bass [i]solo. [/i]It starts at about 6.40. It's so musical & melodic for the most part. Obviously the bit that the crowd screams at is the technically challenging bit, but that bit does its job and there just for that reason. It's a funny thing with solo's like this. Sax players try and sound like guitars, bassists try & sound like saxophones etc...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiCSBH-uPxI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I usually avoid bass solos - both playing them or listening to them. However, if, despite it all, a bass solo is necessary then it really ought to have some relationship to the groove of the song, as VW says, but I'd also expect it to have some relationship to the melody of the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostis Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Just listen to any solo by Alain Caron. That is real poetry in my opinion. Most of us will surely be able to give the name of a bunch of bass players capable of doing most extraordinary solos. I really don't think that the question in this thead should be if bass solos are good-bad-blasphemy... The real question is how to face them if we decide to make them. Of course the solo has to blend in the tune somehow, respecting its general structure and groove. The main idea pointed out by VW is that the best way to keep the attention of the audience is by making their feet move. Just the same way you try to do whenever some other soloist is working. It is of course a very valid point of view. It is clear that many people will not like bass solos. Or guitar, or any other kind of solos. Some others may not like loud music, or vocal music, or whatever at all from the vast range of possibilities that music offers. This is played in the low register. Should we consider it ugly?: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9lCa23kzo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9lCa23kzo&feature=related[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='frostis' timestamp='1322237991' post='1448482'] Just listen to any solo by [b]Alain Caron[/b]. That is real poetry in my opinion. Most of us will surely be able to give the name of a bunch of bass players capable of doing most extraordinary solos. [/quote] Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='frostis' timestamp='1322237991' post='1448482'] Just listen to any solo by Alain Caron..... [/quote] Oh dear, what have you said? [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1322238178' post='1448487'] Who? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='frostis' timestamp='1322237991' post='1448482'] This is played in the low register. Should we consider it ugly?: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9lCa23kzo&feature=related[/media] [/quote] Lovely, but I don't feel that was the kind of bass solo that was being referred to, maybe I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.