Band Lighting ideas.

[paulbass]

Hi all i hope i'm asking for advice in the right forum! Anyways i'm after some advice on lighting.As the bassplayer in this band i'm in we have always used my old lights and i would like to upgrade them but what would be suitable and effective for small to medium pubs and the occassional club?
I would like to get some led lighting but there are so many different types! Where do i start?! The current lights i have are not led and the bulbs are forever blowing,but they are very bright.....any advice and clips on youtube would be much appriecated! Cheers =)

[janmaat]

What do you use now? What is your budget? What venues is it for?

[pete.young]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/160268-led-lighting-rigs/page__hl__led"]http://basschat.co.u...s/page__hl__led[/url]

Edited November 27, 2011 by pete.young

[Paul S]

I bought some this week, as it happens. Taking on board that the KAM ones were better I bought a KAM set. But, typically, the wrong one. I got the KAM PartyBar. As opposed to the KAM ParBar. What's a 'TY' between friends? About £100 and a few lumens less, it seems ... anyway, they work. I'll need to wait until next gig (10th Dec) to see if they work well enough on their own. I suspect they will be good enough, though, for the pubs/small clubs I play in.

[JTUK]

I got some from Thomann...decent price and they do the job well.
The lighting bar seems decent..the stand and footswitch is the fallible part... but for the price, you'd want it this way round, IMO.

They will light up a stage around 5m sq..possibly.

DMX controllable, LEDs... which run low power but are pretty bright and NOT hot. so all good for what I use them for.
You can slave them up as well via XLR.

I wouldn't use them on a pro stage, but that is a another thing. You'd then hire in.

The thing about the footswitches and presets is that they take some work on them to make them useful...
Once you have done this..you'll want to run them DMX from a decent control vehicle.

I am now looking round for a a decent but relatively simple PC/laptop lighting app.

[Paul S]

OK, here's the biggie. Although I have seen it mentioned innumerable times I have no idea what DMX means. I can't even spell it.

Can you, or anyone else with the time and patience, please explain the ins and outs of this? Preferably in words of one syllable or less for a dyed in the wool technophobe.

Ta.

[pete.young]

I think it's short for digital multiplex - it's basically a protocol that allows you to send signals to up to 512 lighting devices down a 3-core cable.

Most of the lighting sets that I'm aware of use XLR sockets for DMX, so all you need to do is chain the units together and you can control them all from one laptop - usually you get a DMX box that plugs into USB on the laptop.

There's a good primer on it here.

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/DMX-Lighting-Effects-What-is-it-Hows-It-work_W0QQugidZ10000000001554234

[paulbass]

Big thanks for all your advice on this subject.I do like the equinox micro bar lights they look good and simple to use....cheers guys!

[janmaat]

Apart from the lights, you need a light concept. Many times, when seeing bands on badly lit stages, even those who bring their own lights fail to properly light up all the players. A little goose neck light to light up, say, the drummer, can make a difference. Rule of thumb, make sure every musician has his or her own light. And try to practise awareness of the lights, so that musicians who move on stage don't walk out of the light: rule of thumb: if you can't see the audience, the audience can see you, and vice versa.

[warwickhunt]

We/I use a pair of i-color-3 lights set to 'sound-to-light' and for pub gigs they are perfectly adequate. There are two sets available used locally; i-color 3 @ £120 and i-color 4 @ £150 so that gives an idea of used prices. Bulbs haven't gone in two years and if they do go they are relatively cheap. Not the best clip to demonstrate as one of the band set the sound to light with insufficient sensitivity (the 'flower' lights were the pubs but the general flood gives you an idea).

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zs9QpZaQPk&list=LLxhZjgl5bzoBoiVP1ACgLUg&index=2&feature=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zs9QpZaQPk&list=LLxhZjgl5bzoBoiVP1ACgLUg&index=2&feature=plpp_video[/url]

[warwickhunt]

I should add that they are very light, compact and easy to use.

[Paul S]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1322501955' post='1451671']
I think it's short for digital multiplex - it's basically a protocol that allows you to send signals to up to 512 lighting devices down a 3-core cable.

Most of the lighting sets that I'm aware of use XLR sockets for DMX, so all you need to do is chain the units together and you can control them all from one laptop - usually you get a DMX box that plugs into USB on the laptop.

There's a good primer on it here.

[url="http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/DMX-Lighting-Effects-What-is-it-Hows-It-work_W0QQugidZ10000000001554234"]http://reviews.ebay....000000001554234[/url]
[/quote]

Pete - thanks for that. Sadly the link is written in a language I don't understand. I [i]think[/i] all I need to know is that the DMX controller is a magic box but need something in the same english to go on to explain how a laptop controls the lights. I can see how the sound reactive setting works in the unit to change the lights but, given the variable speeds we are likely to be playing at, can't see how you can program something like this in advance. Or am I missing the point somehow?

[mike257]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1322573149' post='1452795']
Pete - thanks for that. Sadly the link is written in a language I don't understand. I [i]think[/i] all I need to know is that the DMX controller is a magic box but need something in the same english to go on to explain how a laptop controls the lights. I can see how the sound reactive setting works in the unit to change the lights but, given the variable speeds we are likely to be playing at, can't see how you can program something like this in advance. Or am I missing the point somehow?
[/quote]

DMX is like MIDI for lights. Each light is given an address, and a lighting controller (which can be a piece of kit with knobs and faders on it, or a piece of software on a computer as suggested) controls the lights by sending messages to each light telling it what to do. You can set up individual scenes that recall a setting for all of your lights (like a preset on a multi FX, switching everything together) which could be controlled by a footswitch, or if you have a lighting engineer or are playing to a click-track, you can program them to move/change in sync with the music.

[Paul S]

Ah, thank you, that is beginning to make sense. I think I will read the instructions again, then try and find out more. Then come back with more daft question.

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]My only suggestion is to start small and simple and build up if you have to. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]A couple of years ago our band leader turned up with all singing and dancing lights that flashed in time to the music, did patterns, flashed like mad, the lot! It gave 3 of us migraines before the end of the night and we banned him from bringing them again.[/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][font=Arial] [/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font]

[dmccombe7]

[sub]I've just gone thru this same issue myself and decided on a Showtec 24ch desk to run various LED lighting.[/sub]
[sub]I did use standard PAR cans etc many yrs ago however LED's use very little power and can therefore be run from virtually one 13 amp socket.[/sub]

DMX (digital multiplexer) which means you can allocate a digital address (number) for each light and run full system via one cable and link to each light. Use a spare channel on your front desk multicore and therefore allow all stage control from main desk area where lighting eng gets a better picture of what works and what doesn't.
As someone pointed out earlier don't go overboard with changing lights and running effects for long periods.
Effects should be used for short bursts to provide some added attraction. The main colours should normally run on a slow fade chase with occasional faster chases for faster parts of songs or finallies etc.

[sub]I have a basic understanding of programming, DMX and lamp allocation protocol so I've gone for a desk that is probably more than i need but does give me plenty of room for expansion and adding various effect lighting to enhance the overall show. We do have a dedicated lighting eng along with front desk eng so makes life easier for me.[/sub]
[sub]I buy them they operate them - what could be simpler. [/sub]

[sub]The desk was advertised originally for £140 but when ordered from Thomann it came back at £76 which aint bad for a proper desk.[/sub]
[sub]Ordered on Sun night, processed on Mon and delivered from Germany on Wed morning along with some LED pars.[/sub]
[sub]This is my first outing into LED and DMX but I'm pretty confident and there are loads of Youtube vids showing how to do various things with them.[/sub]
[sub]It took me approx 3 mths to look into LED lighting and read up on them while looking at costs etc before deciding on Showtec route.[/sub]

[b][color=#ff0000]The one query i still have though is the cabling XLR's 3-pin. Are they the same for DMX as say a standard 3 pin XLR or balanced mic XLR. ??[/color][/b]


[sub]Dave [/sub]

Edited December 2, 2011 by dmccombe7

[whizzzy]

[b][color=#ff0000]"The one query i still have though is the cabling XLR's 3-pin. Are they the same for DMX as say a standard 3 pin XLR or balanced mic XLR. ??" [/color][/b]

Technically, no............practically, yes.

Technically DMX cables have a different impedance to those 3 pin XLR's used for audio and so their use in some applications could result in problems.

Practically, DMX protocol is pretty robust these days and unless you are running hundreds of metres of cabling from the controller to the lights then you are unlikely to encounter problems. Strictly speaking you are also supposed to terminate the last light in the chain with a DMX terminator but again if you are only using a handfull of lights with several metres of cable then it won't be a problem.

If errors do occur it usually results in data loss or corruption and so the lights will start doing things that they shouldn't. If you are using simple LED fixtures then you may not even notice this, it usually only becomes an issue when you are contolling moving heads which are quite complex beasts and can have as many as 14 or more DMX channels being used.

For the band I work with we have used as many as 25 different fixtures at a time including moving heads and using audio XLR's to link them and not had a problem. We even use one channel of the multicore to run the DMX control back to the sound engineer so that he can control the lighting - that's how much you can 'abuse' the system.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='whizzzy' timestamp='1322852799' post='1456761']
[b][color=#FF0000]"The one query i still have though is the cabling XLR's 3-pin. Are they the same for DMX as say a standard 3 pin XLR or balanced mic XLR. ??" [/color][/b]

Technically, no............practically, yes.

Technically DMX cables have a different impedance to those 3 pin XLR's used for audio and so their use in some applications could result in problems.

Practically, DMX protocol is pretty robust these days and unless you are running hundreds of metres of cabling from the controller to the lights then you are unlikely to encounter problems. Strictly speaking you are also supposed to terminate the last light in the chain with a DMX terminator but again if you are only using a handfull of lights with several metres of cable then it won't be a problem.

If errors do occur it usually results in data loss or corruption and so the lights will start doing things that they shouldn't. If you are using simple LED fixtures then you may not even notice this, it usually only becomes an issue when you are contolling moving heads which are quite complex beasts and can have as many as 14 or more DMX channels being used.

For the band I work with we have used as many as 25 different fixtures at a time including moving heads and using audio XLR's to link them and not had a problem. We even use one channel of the multicore to run the DMX control back to the sound engineer so that he can control the lighting - that's how much you can 'abuse' the system.
[/quote]

Cheers Whizzy
That's a good valued response obviously based on experience so I'm about to bid for a few link cables on ebay just to try out my new desk and lights before using at gig.

Brilliant and very much appreciated.

Dave

[warwickhunt]

I just bought a DMX cable from this guy and @ £10 for 10m inc delivery that's cheap enough I reckon (it is printed on the rubber cable that it is DMX and not just a mic cable).

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370395564666?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1026wt_1163"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370395564666?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1026wt_1163[/url]

Edited December 2, 2011 by warwickhunt

[Paul S]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1322398367' post='1450257']
I bought some this week, as it happens. Taking on board that the KAM ones were better I bought a KAM set. But, typically, the wrong one. I got the KAM PartyBar. As opposed to the KAM ParBar. What's a 'TY' between friends? About £100 and a few lumens less, it seems ... anyway, they work. I'll need to wait until next gig (10th Dec) to see if they work well enough on their own. I suspect they will be good enough, though, for the pubs/small clubs I play in.
[/quote]

Yup, perfectly good enough for small spaces - bright enough, certainly. I left it on sound activation and simple changes of colour wash - worked a treat. Maybe tinker with the sensitivity a bit but otherwise quick to set up, plug in and play. My only gripe is the kettle lead isn't very long and dangles midair but that is easily sorted. Result.

[JTUK]

[size=5][sub]Anyone got a good recommendation for lighting software and the dev it needs to run from a laptop..?[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]I was thinking software and a USB/DMX type converter device?[/sub][/size]
[size=5][sub]I want to program a set....only pretty basically....at first.[/sub][/size]

[Dad3353]

I used '[url="http://www.nicolaudie.com/"]Sunlite[/url]' for several years with considerable success. I highly recommend it.
Hope this helps...

[skidder652003]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY[/url]

here you go! Equinox micro bar, used it for 2 years now, so far no probs, not much cop in broad daylight at a festival but great for bars, clubs etc with a haze machine.
We paid £399 with carry case, 2 x 4 led bars, 2 x stands. cables and programmable footswitch (my job!). Cant recommend it highly enough

[JTUK]

Looks good...but I wanted a software package on a laptop so we can integrate with other lighting systems..or run with just ours.
I also wanted to fire and forget and not be dancing around on the pedal, if poss...so would program the music set to the light 'console'..
The laptop idea is so we don't aways have to have a dedicated operator at all times. We also want to run slides from it if poss...

that is my thinking anyway.....

I have looked at the Sunlight link, thanks. Will investigate more.

[whizzzy]

There's a number of lighting software packages out there and it generally comes down to your personal opinion on how you find the user interface. Have a look at the following:-

Chamsys - http://www.chamsys.co.uk/download

Trace Lighting - http://www.tracelighting.com/products/ - they have recently introduced a product called 'Verse' which is a lite version of their professional package

Showmagic - www.showmagic.com

All of these provide a facility where you can download demo versions of the software and get a feel for it before parting with any hard earned cash.

With the Chamsys and Showmagic packages you will probably need to buy a USB to DMX converter. Again there are several available but take a look at Enttec - www.enttec.com as they have a couple of very useful dongles but look at the "open USB interface" which is the one I use.

I personally prefer the Showmagic software as I find this more intuitive. I've tried the Chamsys and struggled with it and our sound / lighting engineer swears by the Trace software so like I say it's all down to personal preference.