1976fenderhead Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 [quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328654064' post='1530861'] On the subject of the Line 6 M5 - is that just one effect at a time? ie. you can't form chains of effects like dirt > modulation > delay > reverb? I've owned the Line 6 MM4 (Modulation Modeller) and the DD4 (Delay Modeller) in the past, which I mainly used with synths and they were both 'one at a time', which was a pity, especially on the MM4 as I like to run a slow phaser into a rapid flanger for a pseudo 'Ensemble' effect from the 70s string synths. For the most part, the effects were really good and it was nice that Line 6 'played with history' on some of them by going beyond their original functionality (eg. adding depth and resonance control to the Phase 90 model). The DD4 was also a lot of fun, in particular. I imagine the M5 models are an advancement on the old modeller series. Back to the B3, watch out for the 'Bomber' effect on the B3, folks - it's literally an explosion effect, triggered by playing! I nearly jumped out of my skin with the headphones on when I belted a note with it on! [/quote] Happened to me yesterday when I was trying to play quietly after the neighbours complained, late in the evening, then BOOM! oops The M5 is 1 effect only at a time, the M9 you have 3 pairs of 2 pedals, on each pair you can have 1 pedal on, so you can have 3 on at the same time. The M13 lets you have 4 on at the same time. They also allow for patches and the M9 and M13 have different banks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 [quote name='1976fenderhead' timestamp='1328630266' post='1530323'] I was actually just going to post about tonesucking or not, because some guy on talkbass said he got it. Personally, I couldn't notice any difference. I plugged bass > B3 > amp, then bass > amp a few times, never noticed any colour or tonesucking. I have new strings, and the zing and twang were all there. As for the tuner, I have the Pitchblack too. You know how with the PB you get one red LED lighting just slightly if you are very slightly out of tune? That allows you to tune to perfection. With the B3 the screens are pretty useless besides telling you the note you're on, it's all about the lights on the top, and they always light fully, so if you are 1% high, the red light to the right will light full on, perhaps blink if it's very slight, but it's hard to have a fully gradual feel from it as I guess each light represents a certain percentage range... I won't say it's not accurate because when I moved the tuning peg up or down just a tiny touch from tuned, it noticed and signaled out of tune, but the whole concept is a bit weird... Makes me feel a bit uneasy and hard to trust as much as with a PB. The screens could have been used much better for this. On the M5, you have a horizontal bar and a big dot moves freely left to right on it, it's not 'stepped', so though not as good as the PB and hard to see the note from the height of my 1.88m, it's still pretty good. Also, on the B3, the tuner doesn't mute strings by default with the 1 sec press, you have to do a longer press of 2 secs for it to mute, not sure if this can be changed or not but it's a bit annoying. I like lightning fast D-dropping between songs [/quote] Thanks man, the lack of tone suckage has pretty much sold this to me! I can deal with just not using the tuner and keeping the Pitchblack if I'm not happy with that. Shame I don't have any money at the moment or I'd have yours straight off you! Poooooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1328658299' post='1530935'] Thanks man, the lack of tone suckage has pretty much sold this to me! I can deal with just not using the tuner and keeping the Pitchblack if I'm not happy with that. Shame I don't have any money at the moment or I'd have yours straight off you! Poooooo! [/quote] haha, on the way to where it came from already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Ooh, can anyone recommend a decent expression pedal that'll be compatible with this? The Zoom FP02 that they recommend looks a bit flimsy for what the asking price is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 The Moog one should do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Tipping Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ok .. quick review (as I'm about to keep playing with it) I had 20 mins with it this morning with a set of headphones and was really disappointed ... I started by flicking through some of the preset patches, awful! most of them pretty unusable and then I was just flicking up and down the various pedals and to my ears it sounded pretty thin and like others had suggested previously some of the effects just wouldn't go 100% effect. At this point I had to head to work ... I decided to take it with me along with a set of headphones and a lead to connect my phone to the unit and I recorded a simple bass loop onto my phone (not the best way to test anything .. but I was feeling desperate). At lunch time I got the bass loop going through the pedal and decided to take it slowly. I started with one patch .. turned everything off and started with the "global" settings and then the "total" settings. This is where I had my first "oh, I see" moment. Each "patch" of 3 effects has total settings as well as the individual effect parameters. This instantly perked me up as the patch I had been trying alter had the "bal" set at 50 .. meaning only 50% of the signal was being effected. I quickly managed to get much further with some of the effects than I had earlier but decided to leave until I got home. Once at home I decided to try some of the effects at gig volume through my amp (one of the benefits of living in the wilderness). Instantly things were sounding way fuller than through the headphones. I decided on putting my bass directly into the zoom then into my amp (as opposed to through the effects loop) mainly because I don't want to drive my preamp .. say when I'm tuning muted with then no output? (I could be being retarded here .. but I don't know exactly how this works on a hybrid amp) ... anyhoo, first thing to report is with no effects on I couldn't notice any tone suck at all which is a bonus. I started with the effects I already have on my pedal board to see if I could comfortably replace my board with this unit. In short Yes. The great thing about all the effects on the unit is the ability to blend the amount of the effect that is effecting the signal and secondly is the ability to stack the same effect on top of it's self . With a bit of playing I have now stored 4 patches of distortion which cranked through my amp sound better than anything I've managed with my own pedals and various others I've tried. Next on to the chorus ... this was one of the early effects I hadn't been able to get full enough ... not an issue now .. everything from totally over the top, to very subtle very easily achievable and sound great cranked through my amp. I've also managed to get a pretty nice synth effect for new order tunes etc. and a few other subtle effects. All in all I'm really chuffed with this little unit so far, it's sounds very 'organic' through an amp and not at all digital which It does sound a bit through headphones. I think to start with the best way to think on it is not patches of three effects at once but as one effect .. by adding one of the many compressors and filters / eq along with an effect .. you can shape the overall tone massively .. I've still got loads more playing about with it, but I've got a full volume band practice tomorrow night a pub gig on Friday and a large nightclub gig on Sat I'm pretty sure I'll be using this on it's own so I'll let you know how I get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 OK, a gig review which was positive. Looking forward to more gig reviews, guys. Anyone done any serious, proper recording with it yet? And I don't mean toying with it through headphones. I await your thoughts with bated trousers. Ta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328747243' post='1532245'] OK, a gig review which was positive. Looking forward to more gig reviews, guys. Anyone done any serious, proper recording with it yet? And I don't mean toying with it through headphones. I await your thoughts with bated trousers. Ta! [/quote] I gave this a positive gig review earlier in the thread. The unit really is very good. Not sure about the earlier criticisms re the tuning either, worked great for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Tipping Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ... Forgot to mention the tuner, it's great. Very fast .. not gonna bother with my pitchblack this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Dave Tipping' timestamp='1328746382' post='1532232'] This is where I had my first "oh, I see" moment. Each "patch" of 3 effects has total settings as well as the individual effect parameters. This instantly perked me up as the patch I had been trying alter had the "bal" set at 50 .. meaning only 50% of the signal was being effected. [/quote] D'oh! Can't believe I'd actually read a bit of the manual before I bought it and knew about this and didn't think to check it. Oh well... Still don't think I'd prefer it over the M5 though... Does anyone know if the A0 patch is set at 50% by default? That's the one I used almost exclusively... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Tipping Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think it must be... I did exactly the same thing , just played about with the effects prior to flicking through the patches. I still haven't read the instructions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Sorry Dave, or anyone else with the unit, can you tell me also about patch A1, what the default mix is? So [u]A0[/u] and [u]A1[/u], I think those are the ones I tried, would really appreciate it as I don't want to put people off with my review unfairly, which is the case if it was at 50% or near... The first time I tested the unit everything felt too dry and I couldn't dial out the dry sound when using the pitchshifters, now thinking about it, that patch was probably at 50%. The second and third times, however, I must have been on a different patch as effects felt stronger and I could get pitchshifters to sound close to 100% wet (there was still some chorusing there so maybe something like 80-90%). The first patch is compressor > EQ > amp, why would Zoom set that at anything other than 100%???? I think Zoom may have shot themselves in the foot here, if they did set any of the first patches to less than 100%. If we had hours of disappointment with the unit at home not noticing this, how many people will try the unit in stores and not buy it because of it? If I were Zoom I'd set at least the first half of the A bank to 100% just to be sure to showcase the unit's effects in their full glory, maybe do any mixing on the effects only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumple Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Interesting stuff re the whole wet and dry amounts, Although I like my B3 I was thinking of still using a compressor pedal because I couldn't get that heavily compressed sound out of it but it may be the mixed in dry signal that is the causing the problem, Is it the 'Bal' or 'Level' contrrol on the 'Total' page that changes the mix of the wet and dry sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldude Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1328776987' post='1532385'] Interesting stuff re the whole wet and dry amounts, Although I like my B3 I was thinking of still using a compressor pedal because I couldn't get that heavily compressed sound out of it but it may be the mixed in dry signal that is the causing the problem, Is it the 'Bal' or 'Level' contrrol on the 'Total' page that changes the mix of the wet and dry sound? [/quote] It's bal that controls the wet/dry mix. Level controls the output level i.e. the volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumple Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='aldude' timestamp='1328780155' post='1532435'] It's bal that controls the wet/dry mix. Level controls the output level i.e. the volume. [/quote] Thanks, I'll do a bit more tinkering with the bal control later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='1976fenderhead' timestamp='1328754101' post='1532301'] Sorry Dave, or anyone else with the unit, can you tell me also about patch A1, what the default mix is? So [u]A0[/u] and [u]A1[/u], I think those are the ones I tried, would really appreciate it as I don't want to put people off with my review unfairly, which is the case if it was at 50% or near...[/quote] I'll have a look when I get home from work tonight and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328784328' post='1532515'] I'll have a look when I get home from work tonight and report back. [/quote] Big thanks for that mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 No probs! I've just fired it up and the Balance settings in the Total menu are as follows: A0 'MarkBoost' - Balance 100 (maximum) A1 'Polytone' - Balance 100 (maximum) If there any other patches you remember and want to know the Balance settings, just give me a shout and I'll have a look for you. I'm off for another crack at those flangers, to see if the Balance control was less than 100 on the patches I was tinkering with. Nice one to Dave for pointing the Total Balance out, as I wouldn't have twigged about the Total balance until having the time for a proper tweaking session (I'm still dabbling with the sounds already on offer). Or getting around to reading the manual, which I usually do first on getting hold of a new toy. (note to self - RTFM!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328810723' post='1533098'] No probs! I've just fired it up and the Balance settings in the Total menu are as follows: A0 'MarkBoost' - Balance 100 (maximum) A1 'Polytone' - Balance 100 (maximum) If there any other patches you remember and want to know the Balance settings, just give me a shout and I'll have a look for you. I'm off for another crack at those flangers, to see if the Balance control was less than 100 on the patches I was tinkering with. [/quote] Whoa really, I'm even more confused now Thanks for checking... So if you get a pitchshifter in and and tune to -2, 100% mix, does it sound a bit 'chorusy' with a bit of that vibration you get when tuning to harmonics and they're not right yet, or does it sound like it should, just a clean sharp note 2 half steps down? Let us know about the flangers too... Edited February 9, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I switched the Booster on patch A0 'MarkBoost' for the Pitchshifter and turned off the other two effects. With the Total Balance set to 100 (default), I set the Pitchshifter to -2 and set the Balance on the Pitchshifter to 50, which as expected, gave a 50/50 mix of the pitched tone and the bass. I then set the Balance on the Pitchshifter to 100, for a purely wet signal and the only sound produced was the pitchshifted tone, two semitones down - ie. a 100% wet effect signal. Leaving the Balance on the Pitchshifter at 100, I then turned the Total Balance down to 50 and this brought the bright signal back in. Setting the Total balance back up to 100 again brought back the 100% wet effect signal. I had another look at the flangers - on some of the patches Total Balance was 80 or lower in some cases, so raising this does make the flangers more prominent but I feel that they're still a bit restrained. However, they're okay with certain settings and you can still get a usable flanger sound out of them in the chorusy-range, but they're definitely no match for an analogue flanger or the Line 6 models (I'm going from the MM4 flangers). Your M5 will still trump them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328818072' post='1533263'] I switched the Booster on patch A0 'MarkBoost' for the Pitchshifter and turned off the other two effects. With the Total Balance set to 100 (default), I set the Pitchshifter to -2 and set the Balance on the Pitchshifter to 50, which as expected, gave a 50/50 mix of the pitched tone and the bass. I then set the Balance on the Pitchshifter to 100, for a purely wet signal and the only sound produced was the pitchshifted tone, two semitones down - ie. a 100% wet effect signal. Leaving the Balance on the Pitchshifter at 100, I then turned the Total Balance down to 50 and this brought the bright signal back in. Setting the Total balance back up to 100 again brought back the 100% wet effect signal. I had another look at the flangers - on some of the patches Total Balance was 80 or lower in some cases, so raising this does make the flangers more prominent but I feel that they're still a bit restrained. However, they're okay with certain settings and you can still get a usable flanger sound out of them in the chorusy-range, but they're definitely no match for an analogue flanger or the Line 6 models (I'm going from the MM4 flangers). Your M5 will still trump them. [/quote] Cool, thanks for all that. I'm pretty sure I did my last 2 testing sessions at 80% minimum because the pitchshifters were 100% wet or close to it. 100% or not, I could see the character of the modulations was not as warm as the Line 6's, like you also say, the distortions also sounded a lot more digital and I couldn't roll out the effect enough on those Synth didn't track fast enough, so I'd still need to have my distortion and synth on the board and would use the B3 for modulation only and sounding weaker at that than the Line 6 - no point for my usage. If only the Line 6 had a lowpass filter in the setup screen for each effect like it has a gate control it would be perfect for bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Tipping Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Just back from a full volume practice with the band .. I used 3 separate distortions all excellent (bass muff, tube screamer, and overdrive) all sounded the same as the real deals .. but with the added benefit of being able to tweak the setting and store them! ... Other than that I used two separate choruses 1 very subtle ... and one totally over the top effect for a bit of big country fields of fire .. My guitarist is not one for compliments and a bit of a gear snob ... his exact words "you f**king nailed that tone mate" . Oh and for S*ts and Giggles at the end of the practice I cranked the amp and stomped on the "bomber" .. totally useless effect but brilliant for scaring the crap out of people! Looking forward to gigging with it tomorrow .. I've also realised with a little bit of tweeking to my old P-bass hard case (basically three dents in the foam) I will be able to fit the pedal into the middle pocket which is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmeDunk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='steve' timestamp='1328483690' post='1528010'] gigged mine last night, all went well, got a really nice grindy drive for the songs that I play with a pick, used a couple of other patches that i knocked up yesterdsay afternoon (synth intro for dakota, needs work but did the job) .... [/quote] What kind of effect did you use to play the synth intro of Dakota? Edited February 12, 2012 by OmeDunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Just ordered one. Put some stuff (non musical) up for sale on a different forum last night and sold it all with in 20 mins! Now just have to sit and wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Tipping Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ok .. 1 pub gig (about 100 folk) on friday and a large club gig (500 ish people) last night ... Apart from being very nervous beer would get spilled on it .. or some tool would jump on it during a stage invasion at the end of our set last night, I've got nothing but praise for the little unit. The distortion sounds very fat (not at all digital) and the variations of chorus are great. I also had a couple of bass boost effects and a couple of eq settings which worked brilliantly. The sound guy in the place (a pretty respected local bassist) was really impressed with the sound I had which made my night. I'm not sure what to do about the beer spillage issue though .. it just seems a lot more vulnarable that my old pedal board ... Esp with a large group of drunken punters invading the stage with pints in hands! I'm probably going to get some rechargeable batts for it so I don't need it plugged in, that way I could probably kick it / pull it to the back of the stage if it's getting a bit crazy. One thing that was a massive plus last night was simply the illumination of the screen, it was a very dark nightclub stage we were on last night and it was superb being able to see my effects so clearly. Even with my relatively bad eye sight I had no probs reading the displays standing up, I'm really impressed with the tuner on the pedal as well it definitely copes with my dropped C# better than my pitchblack. .. ok I'm going to shut up now! As before when you get the pedal don't despair at the presets .. take time to go through it and you won't be disappointed ... that said I'm only talking about when through my amp at a decent volume, not had it through headphones since the first day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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