Changing the scale length

[fryer]

Hi, I have a normal, 34" scale headless bass, which I want to change to a short scale, 30". It looks as though I can cut the top 2 frets off, and the frets will line up with my other basses which are 30" scale. Then for example the 14th fret will become the new 12th fret, and hopefully the intonation will work.

Any thoughts ?

[EssentialTension]

Put a capo on the second fret, it will save using a saw.

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Not a sensible idea. Every fret will be out of tune. If you change the scale the distance between every fret has to be recalculated. [/font][/color][/size]

[discreet]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322342002' post='1449765']
Put a capo on the second fret, it will save using a saw.
[/quote]

Sorry, I just found this funny for some reason.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1322357238' post='1449979']
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Not a sensible idea. Every fret will be out of tune. If you change the scale the distance between every fret has to be recalculated. [/font][/color][/size]
[/quote]
The frets won't be out of tune, it's only like putting a capo on, but you're correct it is not a sensible idea at all. The nut would have to be exactly where the second fret was - making the scale length about 30.3" I guess - and then there's the truss rod question and then there's Ou7shined's question of 'why?'.

Edited November 27, 2011 by EssentialTension

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1322357339' post='1449981']
Sorry, I just found this funny for some reason.
[/quote]
Shame, you could have 'liked' it.

[chris_b]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322357579' post='1449983']
....The frets won't be out of tune....
[/quote]

[size=4]Yes they will. Check out this fretboard calculator.[/size]

[size=4][url="http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/FretCalc/index.php"]http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/FretCalc/index.php[/url][/size]

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1322358769' post='1449988']
[size=4]Yes they will. Check out this fretboard calculator.[/size]

[size=4][url="http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/FretCalc/index.php"]http://www.tundraman...tCalc/index.php[/url][/size]
[/quote]
If the nut is exactly at what was the second fret then all the frets will be in the right place and the octave will be at what used to be a 14th fret, just like when you put a capo on. It wouldn't be exactly 30" scale but then many 30" scale basses aren't exactly 30". It will be closer to 30.3".

I used this calculator to check it: [url="http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/fret-and-nut-calculators/fret-calculator/"]http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/fret-and-nut-calculators/fret-calculator/[/url]

However, if the OP were foolish enough to measure 30" exactly and then saw it off, he would be in trouble for several reasons, including the frets.

[Dom in Dorset]

A small detail but the pickups will be in the wrong place too. As has been said before you'll destroy the truss rod, so no it can't be done.
How about tuning down to D , then your second fret will be your E, you'll then have a short scale bass with low D extension!!!
Or just get another bass.

[fryer]

Thanks for your replies. As to Why - I don't know really. I can modify the truss rod. And I would cut it so that the nut would be where the 2nd fret was.
I'll post the results later.

[bassmachine2112]

[i]Take the neck off and cut the last 2 frets off then when the bass is ruined go and buy a short scale one and a standard scale to replace the knackered one.[/i]
[i]looking for my hat,scarf and gloves [/i]

[Dom in Dorset]

How do you know that you can modify the truss rod with out seeing it? Or without seeing what's left after cutting 2' off? Unless you can source a short scale truss rod to replace it:
One word of advice "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[discreet]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' timestamp='1322388071' post='1450077']
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[/quote]

This. Sorry, but my feeling is that it's bound to go horribly wrong and at best you'll end up with a dog's breakfast which will need to go in the bin. Pleeease don't do it!! Pleeease!!

Edit: Unless you're a top luthier of course, in which case I look forward to the pics.

Edited November 27, 2011 by discreet

[EssentialTension]

It really isn't a good idea.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1322389415' post='1450097']
In which case the better option of a new neck would probably have been done.

All in all I reckon it's a silly idea fraught with all sort of things that will turn a usable bass into an ornament to be found in an Uncles loft and appear in the Ebay part of the forum.
[/quote]

with all its mods it could even be another one from the Entwhistle loft of eBay basses fame!

I say do it, could be fun?

[fretmeister]

Paul_C of this forum could build you a nice new shortscale neck for it. He really knows what he is doing.

[geoffbyrne]

This is the daftest idea I've read here in some time & displays a total ignorance (or misunderstanding at best) of the mechanics, physics & mathematics of how a bass works.

Better to find one of aul Rose's short scales. Sometimes the odd one comes up for sale here.

G.

[neepheid]

Sorry to add to the wave of negativity, but please, [i]por favor[/i], don't do this. Much better to source a short scale neck, sort out how to mount it then move the bridge.

[henry norton]

You need to tell us more about this mod you're thinking of doing. ET's suggestion of a capo is a pretty good one as it goes and I would definitely do that before you get the saw out. Other than that, I'd go for it

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1322404652' post='1450389']
Can I just ask what you mean by the mathematics ?
[/quote]
I don't know what was meant but:

(long scale) - (two frets) = (short scale) = mathematically correct

(long scale) - (two frets) = (unholy mess) = actually correct

[Dom in Dorset]

(Long scale neck) - (two frets) = (neck with sawn off truss rod) =(banana)

[benebass]

What sort of bass is it? If it uses the Steinberger system then you won't be able to use double ball end strings on a shorter scale. The only shorter headless I've seen using double ball ends is the Status King Bass, which has the 'Bendwell' system to make up the string length.

The capo is a really good idea to be honest & a non-destructive way to check that shortening the scale is for you. I tried this once on a 34" scale before I bought a shorter scale. I really struggled with all the dots being two frets out though - were you planning a new fingerboard too?

If you really want a headless shortie then it might be better to sell your bass & buy a Kramer Duke - short scale Steinberger copy from the '80s that uses standard strings. I think there was one for sale on here a while back.

Cheers,

B.

[fryer]

I've tried a capo, and the frets and intonation are fine. Re the strings, I am going to fit the adaptor so I can use single ball end strings. Just got to have a look at the truss rod. Not sure about the dot markers.

Where's my saw.

[Dave D]

Wouldn't it be easier just to hold the bass 4" further to the right across your body?!!!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='fryer' timestamp='1322600923' post='1453463']
I've tried a capo, and the frets and intonation are fine. Re the strings, I am going to fit the adaptor so I can use single ball end strings. Just got to have a look at the truss rod. Not sure about the dot markers.

Where's my saw.
[/quote]

Before and after pics please.