Is our sound over-processed?

[4 Strings]

This thought started with a comparison of my present cabs with Barefaced cabs. I realise that my present cabs present a certain 'tone' whereas the Barefaced reproduce the actual bass guitar sound (assuming the amp is running flat etc) and this started me thinking about the sound we hear from electric bass guitars.

I've always been happy with my cabs, sound great. But I now wonder if the sound has been engineered to be flattering and I (we) have become too used to this.

Listen to the sound of a speech on the radio through a 'hi-fi' or car stereo. The voices are deep and bassy, sounding very impressive but actually not like someones natural voice. So when the music comes is this going to be a natural sound?

Similarly, when I hear Mark King, Marcus Miller etc (both I greatly admire) these are not the natural sounds of an unplugged bass guitar.

Should they be?

If we listen to a recording of an upright we want it to sound like the original. Have we become so used to having the electric bass sound being processed that we now cannot stomach what it really sounds like? I certainly feel this with electric guitars which seem to be rarely played nowadays with a clean sound.

Do we actually like the sound bass guitars make or to do we need the sugar coating to make them palatable?

[xilddx]

I know what you are saying, however, I completely disagree

Everyone has sounds in their heads, and they are mostly now influenced by recordings not live performances. The last thing in the world I want to hear is a perfectly reproduced sound of a bass through a transparent amp and cab. I want the sound to fit well with the bands I play with and please my ears. I use a POD to do that. Some may like the complete opposite. Soon we will be able to create any sound we like.

Why be restricted to the inherent sound of a slab of wood, strings and transducers?

[razze06]

Personally, I like (or not like) the sound that the bass+amp+cabs produce. To me they're all part of the same instrument, given that each of them doesn't make any real usable sound on its own.

To me, the sound of an unplugged electric bass guitar is irrelevant, as it is an incomplete instrument.

You can find me huddled at the bottom of my bunker, wearing a tin hat...

[xilddx]

[quote name='razze06' timestamp='1322844484' post='1456625']
Personally, I like (or not like) the sound that the bass+amp+cabs produce. To me they're all part of the same instrument, given that each of them doesn't make any real usable sound on its own.

To me, the sound of an unplugged electric bass guitar is irrelevant, as it is an incomplete instrument.

You can find me huddled at the bottom of my bunker, wearing a tin hat...
[/quote]

+1

[daz]

Les Claypool in this months bass guitar magazine shows off his new bass with no tone just a single volume knob. Thats hardcore !


[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/DrSativa/lesclaypool.jpg[/IMG]

Edited December 2, 2011 by daz

[paul_5]

I've found that get a halfway decent distorted/overdriven/fuzz bass sound you've [i]got[/i] to have an amp and speakers (or simulator) in the chain to 'flatter' the sound.
Of course, sounding 'good' is massively subjective.

I can see the rationale behind the OP, but to push the idea to the nth degree, we should all be playing uprights, eating our food raw, and sleeping in trees.

[4 Strings]

So we have to consider our musical instrument as the combination of a guitar, (pedals), amplifier and speaker system as a whole as we don't like the sound of the bass guitar part of it.

The comparison to an upright is not fair as it is a different instrument, will sound, to my ears, magnificent as an upright and is usually recorded to as such. This despite its natural sound not necessarily optimised to 'cut through the mix' etc. We (most of us) play electric basses despite, it would appear, not liking their actual sound.

I suppose we could say that they were not designed to be played unamplified, the pickups are magnetic and not microphonic after all, and they can only sound good if we process its sound. However with so much written about their subtleties in construction, materials, pickup design etc to minutely hone the basic sound its easy to be confused.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1322844858' post='1456631']
Les Claypool in this months bass guitar magazine shows off his new bass with no tone just a single volume knob. Thats hardcore !
[/quote]
Hardly.

AFAIK it's a single pickup passive bass. Why complicate it with controls that don't do much and are easily overshadowed by those on your amp?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322841303' post='1456562']
This thought started with a comparison of my present cabs with Barefaced cabs. I realise that my present cabs present a certain 'tone' whereas the Barefaced reproduce the actual bass guitar sound (assuming the amp is running flat etc) and this started me thinking about the sound we hear from electric bass guitars.

I've always been happy with my cabs, sound great. But I now wonder if the sound has been engineered to be flattering and I (we) have become too used to this.

Listen to the sound of a speech on the radio through a 'hi-fi' or car stereo. The voices are deep and bassy, sounding very impressive but actually not like someones natural voice. So when the music comes is this going to be a natural sound?

Similarly, when I hear Mark King, Marcus Miller etc (both I greatly admire) these are not the natural sounds of an unplugged bass guitar.

Should they be?

If we listen to a recording of an upright we want it to sound like the original. Have we become so used to having the electric bass sound being processed that we now cannot stomach what it really sounds like? I certainly feel this with electric guitars which seem to be rarely played nowadays with a clean sound.

Do we actually like the sound bass guitars make or to do we need the sugar coating to make them palatable?
[/quote]
Are the Barefaced cabs uncoloured? How do you know when an amp is set flat? Does it matter?

IMO everything from what you use to pluck the strings to the room that the your cabs are in will colour the sound to some extent. The trick is to connect up all those variables in a way that gives a pleasing end product which of course is entirely subjective.

If you like what you hear and the sound sits appropriately with the overall sound of the band you are playing then that's all you need.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322841303' post='1456562']
This thought started with a comparison of my present cabs with Barefaced cabs. I realise that my present cabs present a certain 'tone' whereas the Barefaced reproduce the actual bass guitar sound (assuming the amp is running flat etc) and this started me thinking about the sound we hear from electric bass guitars.

I've always been happy with my cabs, sound great. But I now wonder if the sound has been engineered to be flattering and I (we) have become too used to this.

[/quote]

Which do you prefer? Both are processed, just with different design goals. Every bass sound on record will be processed to some extent.
Is a jazz bass a more natural sound of a bass than a p bass? Are my Seymour duncan pickups more natural than fender ones?

[RhysP]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322841303' post='1456562']
when I hear Mark King, Marcus Miller etc (both I greatly admire) these are not the natural sounds of an unplugged bass guitar.
[/quote]

It's an ELECTRIC bass guitar, why would you think it's "natural" sound is it's unplugged sound - the whole point of the excercise is that you plug it into an amp.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1322847925' post='1456691']
Which do you prefer? Both are processed, just with different design goals. Every bass sound on record will be processed to some extent.
Is a jazz bass a more natural sound of a bass than a p bass? Are my Seymour duncan pickups more natural than fender ones?
[/quote]

Kind of missing the point really, but yes, of course the Barefaced is coloured.

And yes, very bass sound you hear is processed, that's closer to the point.

[Monckyman]

Everything we hear coming out of a loudpseaker is "processed".
The very process of amplification is a process itself.
There is an argument that digitised processing is not as natural as analogue processing but I can`t see anything natural about any of it.
And that`s ok, because it sounds good.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1322853828' post='1456781']
Everything we hear coming out of a loudpseaker is "processed".
The very process of amplification is a process itself.
There is an argument that digitised processing is not as natural as analogue processing but I can`t see anything natural about any of it.
And that`s ok, because it sounds good.
[/quote]

This.

If you like the sound that you're making then it doesn't matter how many amps/cabs/pedals/pickups/effects/ADCs/DACs/DI boxes you're running through. A simple signal chain is not inherently better than a complicated one. Just different.

[mcnach]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322841303' post='1456562']
This thought started with a comparison of my present cabs with Barefaced cabs. I realise that my present cabs present a certain 'tone' whereas the Barefaced reproduce the actual bass guitar sound (assuming the amp is running flat etc) and this started me thinking about the sound we hear from electric bass guitars.

I've always been happy with my cabs, sound great. But I now wonder if the sound has been engineered to be flattering and I (we) have become too used to this.
[/quote]

"If it sounds good, then it is good."
It may be a simplistic view, but with so many parameters I think it's easy to get lost in the details... and I really just want the final result to be good. However I get there is anecdotical.


[quote]
Listen to the sound of a speech on the radio through a 'hi-fi' or car stereo. The voices are deep and bassy, sounding very impressive but actually not like someones natural voice. So when the music comes is this going to be a natural sound?

Similarly, when I hear Mark King, Marcus Miller etc (both I greatly admire) these are not the natural sounds of an unplugged bass guitar.

Should they be?
[/quote]

the sound of an unplugged electric bass guitar is only part of the equation. An electric bass is not just the bass, it's a whole lot of other things, including amp and speakers. In my opinion. I mean, the pickups do not capture the acoustic sound of an electric bass guitar, the acoustic sound is a secondary effect. What they do is generate a small current thanks to the disturbance of a magnetic field by the conductive strings, and that gets translated into a bass noise.

What is the "natural" sound of an electric bass guitar?


[quote]If we listen to a recording of an upright we want it to sound like the original. Have we become so used to having the electric bass sound being processed that we now cannot stomach what it really sounds like? I certainly feel this with electric guitars which seem to be rarely played nowadays with a clean sound.[/quote]

I think the difference is an upright is a full instrument by itself. You can use a microphone to capture the acoustic sound, which is "the final product" already, and record it. And then reproduce it through a particular amp/speaker and you can easily say "it sounds like the original" or "it does not". To do the same on an electric bass, you will have to put a microphone on the speaker... after a whole chain of electronic gubbins.

At the end of the day... amps, fx, etc are made so that they produce a sound we like to hear. To me, the amp, fx etc is part of the sound of an electric bass guitar. So what is the natural sound of one? If you feel tempted to provide an answer to that one, then you can try : What is the natural sound of a synthesiser?

[LawrenceH]

I do think a lot of the so-called 'valve-y' characteristics that some modern amps like the Terror make sound very over-processed (and the Sansamp type pedals), and I struggle to think of any bands I've seen who actually have such a heavily coloured sound in practice - basschat seems like a different world! I really love the sound of high quality studio valve pre-amps, which to me sound a world away, just 'the same sound but better and more responsive'.

I also don't like cabs that colour the sound too much with respect to EQ curves, or smear the low-mid time domain info. However I think I do quite like the sound of cone break-up from a high quality driver, as well as the gentler end of the distortion introduced by exceeding xmax on a well-designed bass speaker.

[mcnach]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322846862' post='1456667']
The comparison to an upright is not fair as it is a different instrument, will sound, to my ears, magnificent as an upright and is usually recorded to as such. This despite its natural sound not necessarily optimised to 'cut through the mix' etc. We (most of us) play electric basses despite, it would appear, not liking their actual sound.
[/quote]

Can we say we do not like the sound of a synthesiser because we do not like to just amplify the sound of the keys when we hit them, unplugged?

[4 Strings]

So, it would appear we don't actually like the natural sound of a bass guitar!

My question is whether this is because we've become so used to a heavily processed/coloured sound as opposed to basses sounding horrible to start with.

Most generally dislike the way a synth bass sounds compared with a 'proper' bass (I know there are exceptions but I certainly do and not just on principle) but I wondered that we're heading in that direction with our stringed basses. Compare the sound of a bass in the 60s to what we expect from a modern bass sound. Have we moved from a more natural sound to one more flattering?

[chrismuzz]

I prefer to start off with a perfectly clean transparent tone (both pickups on full volume/tone, flat EQ, transparent cab), and then alter the sound to fit with what im doing. I quite like the sound I get 'straight out of the box' thankfully, but can't help tweaking it!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1322864113' post='1456930']
So, it would appear we don't actually like the natural sound of a bass guitar!

My question is whether this is because we've become so used to a heavily processed/coloured sound as opposed to basses sounding horrible to start with.

Most generally dislike the way a synth bass sounds compared with a 'proper' bass (I know there are exceptions but I certainly do and not just on principle) but I wondered that we're heading in that direction with our stringed basses. Compare the sound of a bass in the 60s to what we expect from a modern bass sound. Have we moved from a more natural sound to one more flattering?
[/quote]
well taking into account the fact the first basses were trying to mimic the sound of a double bass- but surely the technology we have now in amps and cabs more faithfully represents the sound of the bass than the 60's. Unless you are talking about recorded sound which is another kettle of fish

[4 Strings]

Well, modern technology is certainly more capable of faithful representation but it seems to have taken us in a different direction.

Compare the intro to Archie Bell and the Drells 'Tighten Up' to the intro to the intro to Love Games and, avoiding obvious effects on Hysteria and the like, give Marcus Miller's Blast a try. Love the sound but its only quite like a decent bass (with some zingy new strings). The rest is 'process', be it amp/speakers/pedals etc.

This is what we've been used to and expect but its moved from the actual sound of a bass guitar. I know Tighten Up is clearly played on flat strings, but what you hear is pretty close to what they sound like.

[Lozz196]

I think there is a definate amount of truth about this, but to me, it`s to the whole music production, not specificaly the bass.

Nowadays, with modern music production (and I`m talking about the music I listen to, not chart stuff), I have great difficulty in even hearing what the bass is actually playing. I know it`s there, but working it out, well not much of a chance. I look back to Guns N Roses, The Jam, The Stranglers, U2 for example, and sitting down and listening to the tracks, you could easily work the basslines out.

For me, it seems as if the "loudness" button has been switched on on most modern productions. Overall, not a bad sound, but trying to distinguish what the bass is playing through it, for me, is difficult.

[flyfisher]

This reminds me of the debate over whether photos should be digitally enhanced or not. I don't have a problem with photo or sound processing/enhancements if they are artistic endeavours where the end result is all that matters.

Sure, a documentary photo should be untouched but an 'image' can be created in anyway the artist thinks appropriate.

Similarly, if a scientist wants to record the sound of a bit of steel wire stretched along a lump of wood then audio processing is probably not appropriate but a musician generally has a different agenda and wants to create something, in which case why not use any and all available techniques?

So, for me, how a sound is created matters rather less than if I actually like it. Isn't that the only thing that really matters when it comes to art?

[Adrenochrome]

I'm absolutely happy with a processed sound. Virtually none of the bands we cover have a 'clean' or 'acoustic' bass sound which fits with the bass sounds I [i]generally[/i] enjoy anyway. Each to their own, YMMV etc etc.

[4 Strings]

Photos enhancement is a good analogy. We are being bombarded with flattering images of people in magazines that have been retouched, skin smoothed etc by digital processing. We're getting used to this and, for most celebrities, would expect it. This is the same principle, we don't like the look of the actual person, we prefer the enhanced version.

I'm just wondering if this is the right direction for things. How would we feel when we could trust no image to be representative of the subject? For art, yes, lets play around, lets swirl the wet ink in a Polaroid, lets solarise colours etc. Muse's Hysteria is popular example, given earlier, of this on the bass. But I'm wondering whether we've developed away from the basic sound of a guitar and can accept nothing other than a processed version of it now.

(Yes, its most definitely in the whole of (popular at least) music production. Regarding picking out the bass in modern music, firstly in most of pop (Radio 1 style) it'll be trying to pick out a synth sound from other synth sounds, secondly the button used is 'compression' - but, although related, that's another thread!)