Anyone who can REALLY play remember when they were proper rubbish and largely clueless...??

[JTUK]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1323071847' post='1458791']

Oh- and find a good drummer- this will make you sound much better than you are- Always worked for me!!

[/quote]

I think it is the bass players job to make the drummer sound good...
Drummers with rare grooves are rare indeed...and that included some really good technical players, IME. around here, anyway.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1323080713' post='1458888']
I think it is the bass players job to make the drummer sound good...
Drummers with rare grooves are rare indeed...and that included some really good technical players, IME. around here, anyway.
[/quote]

Loads of good players around here- our regular drummer teaches drums and one of our deps does too- real monster players. In fact one of their pupils depped for us a couple of weeks ago and he was great- 18 yrs old- bit nervous but very very good. Cant stand playing with crap drummers- always frustrates me no end.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1323071847' post='1458791']
I have been playing for 35 yrs- since I was 14 and the best bit of advice I can give is dont concentrate on fast runs etc but concentrate on your timing or "groove" Keep it simple- the runs and "flashiness" will come. I have found that only musicians notice these things- the normal audience will not- but they will instinctively know if you can groove.

Oh- and find a good drummer- this will make you sound much better than you are- Always worked for me!!

If you are looking for a line to impress if played correctly- try Good Times by chic- seen loads of bands do this but hardly any with the correct groove....
[/quote]

+1 to all of this. Whenever I'm looking for musicians keeping in time, the groove etc all are important, never how fast their bass drum pedal or fingering technique.

I must admit, I always thought I was great when I started bass, I could play lead guitar after all. But the better I've got over the 30 and more years I've been playing the less good I've realised I really am! I now try to balance self criticism with self belief.

[paul_5]

just be honest with yourself and evaluate what you can do on a regular basis - or better still, get a good teacher who can do that and then advise the best way to move forward.

I've been playing for 19 years, and have progressed a fair way, but I'm STILL trying to develop my playing, but focussing on note choice instead of techniques, because 99% of the time that's far more important than double-thumbing / slapping etc...

Sure, it's nice to have the chops, but you'll need to be a solid player first. I know that I was a rubbish player when I started, but I'd played keyboards for a while so I knew bits about chord theory and scales, which helped, but I had to work an awful long time to develop my groove playing. It's payed dividends though - I've never failed to get a gig after an audition, and have had some really well-paid gigs off the back of it.

Just take it one step at a time (and get a metronome).

[BottomE]

There was an interview on the radio with a very famous Jazz sax player. He is world renowned and in his 70's. He is still doing around 3 to 4 hours of practise every day.

It never stops. The more you know the more you realise you don't know. Maybe look at the whole thing as a life long journey with no destination.

[PaulWarning]

funnily enough the band I play with is learning Barb Wire Love, who the hell mixed that, it's completely gutless, trying to figure out what the bass players doing is a bit tricky when you can't hear him, I think he's just running up and down some of the major scale notes, no wonder there's no tab for it

[risingson]

This probably sounds a bit silly and very obvious, but the main difference between a beginner wanting to play a well and a pro playing well is experience and a lot of invested time. Putting on a pair of football boots isn't suddenly going to make you the next Messi or even the next Peter Crouch. I've been playing for 10 years now and I can honestly say that the thing that made me a better bass player, apart from practice, was gigging and recording experience because all of a sudden, everything you've practiced has to get pulled sharply into focus.

There was a guy when I was younger who I used to be in total awe of. To me he was the best bass player I'd ever seen, I used to try and get to talk to him after gigs about his favourite bass players so I could study them and get as good as he was. I didn't see him for a while, but when I did next see him performing a few years later, his skills were comparatively no better than my own. In fact, I was considerably better, not least of all because by this stage I had out-practiced him and had a number of years playing live under my belt which really booted me into gear.

This all sounds a lot like I'm blowing my own trumpet , but I don't think that too fine a point can be put on hard work and experience. As obvious as it sounds, it really is the key in becoming a better bass player. You just have to want it and work for it.

Edited December 5, 2011 by risingson

[icastle]

I've been playing for just over 30 years now and practice most days - so a lot of time and effort.
My definition of a good practice session is where I can get little glimmer of inspiration to ignite into something more tangible.

Good practices don't happen every day, week or even month though.
IMHO, learning how to be patient and not getting disheartened when just 'freewheeling' are every bit as important as learning new tricks.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1323095287' post='1459165']
This probably sounds a bit silly and very obvious, but the main difference between a beginner wanting to play a well and a pro playing well is experience and a lot of invested time. Putting on a pair of football boots isn't suddenly going to make you the next Messi or even the next Peter Crouch. I've been playing for 10 years now and I can honestly say that the thing that made me a better bass player, apart from practice, was gigging and recording experience because all of a sudden, everything you've practiced has to get pulled sharply into focus.

There was a guy when I was younger who I used to be in total awe of. To me he was the best bass player I'd ever seen, I used to try and get to talk to him after gigs about his favourite bass players so I could study them and get as good as he was. I didn't see him for a while, but when I did next see him performing a few years later, his skills were comparatively no better than my own. In fact, I was considerably better, not least of all because by this stage I had out-practiced him and had a number of years playing live under my belt which really booted me into gear.

This all sounds a lot like I'm blowing my own trumpet , but I don't think that too fine a point can be put on hard work and experience. As obvious as it sounds, it really is the key in becoming a better bass player. You just have to want it and work for it.
[/quote]

Absolutely, there's no short cut. This has happened to me, except the other way round! A young lad used to come round asking me to show him bits on the bass, his band has now headlined and Ronnie Scotts and he is streets ahead of me. He practiced. (He also has way more basses than me, but I think that's another story!).

[thebigyin]

I still am....lol.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1323099025' post='1459238']
Absolutely, there's no short cut. This has happened to me, except the other way round! A young lad used to come round asking me to show him bits on the bass, his band has now headlined and Ronnie Scotts and he is streets ahead of me. He practiced. (He also has way more basses than me, but I think that's another story!).
[/quote]

When he was at school in Cardiff our guitarist was asked by a fellow pupil how to play some Wishbone Ash songs as this chap had just started to play guitar and was keen to learn- that chap was Pino Paladino and with a bit of practice he has done OK!

[JTUK]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1323090351' post='1459062']
Loads of good players around here- our regular drummer teaches drums and one of our deps does too- real monster players. In fact one of their pupils depped for us a couple of weeks ago and he was great- 18 yrs old- bit nervous but very very good. Cant stand playing with crap drummers- always frustrates me no end.
[/quote]

Tbh, that doesn't tell you much until they are in the chair.
There are about 5 guys around here who get all the work..or 1st call but some gigs just aren't that easy to fill.
These top choices might bring quite a trick to the party but then they might not be able to stand up to the regular guy either....but who REALLY notices this is the band members.

Some of the CV's they might bring can be pretty impressive for household name.. but they still don't cover the gig on that one-off.
They can all play very well/great which is a given, but a seemless fit is VERY very hard..nigh impossible, and you'd want your regular guy on that special gig.

You know the ones that get the groove can really help that track..but to do that x 20 songs takes some doing.

Don't get me wrong, am glad to have them..but tis difficult and you need to help them. But all part of being a section.

[TimR]

Music is a language. The notes are the letters, the bars are the words and the phrases are umm phrases. I can have a conversation with my 7 year old son, I understand what he says and he understands what I say, but I can also have a conversation with my friends down the pub. Both are equally enjoyable and valid. Just the older you get the more words you learn and you start to hear the same phrases used time and time again.

Well at least from the wife I do.

Edited December 5, 2011 by TimR

[louisthebass]

I remember first starting out and not being happy with my playing for years, but as a lot of the previous posters have said, it's all about improving a little bit every day. I feel a lot better about my playing now than I ever have done, but there's always room for inprovement.

I suppose when I look back at all the bands I've played with over the years, I've never been kicked out of any of 'em. Nobody has ever come up to me after a gig and said "you're a cr*p bass player" so I guess I must be doing something right....

[neepheid]

I don't consider myself to be anything like good, I can hold the low end down and keep reasonable time, but I'm definitely functional rather than flamboyant. Taking lessons resulted in a big whoosh of improvement, mostly filling in the blanks, discovering the reasons why certain notes work beyond "because it sounds right" and being pushed to play more complex stuff, more complex rhythms. I got approached by a fellow bass player after my gig on Friday and was complimented on my playing, we talked a bit of shop (meaning gear, mostly) and it was nice. My wife tells me I'm looking up more when I'm playing. I've never been kicked out of a band for being crap. You have to gather all this anecdotal evidence and eventually come to the conclusion that you must be doing something right.

[REDLAWMAN]

I've just gone back and re/re-read all of your comments on here and it's hugely inspirational stuff.

Thank you everyone.

Motivation is high; practising is far more enjoyable now; formal music lessons being organised and now all I need is two find a band in Cornwall who have a penchant for 'Some *@&* from Preston' music......

[Soliloquy]

Get a [b]good[/b] teacher !

[EdwardHimself]

I can REALLY play smoke on the water on bass. I am still pretty rubbish and clueless though.

[Chlo_treacher]

Ive had some unbelievable experiences the last few years of my life that make me feel incredibly blessed; recorded an album with coldplays old producer Ken Nelson, toured with James around the uk that included the royal albert hall, toured with the goo goo dolls that included brixton academy, done performances and recording sessions in portugal, been featured in two bass magazines, theatre productions with west end md's, endorsement deals with overwater....And I'm still waiting on someone to turn around, point and say "hang on a minute, you dont know what your doing! why are you here?"

Point being, that feeling never goes away, its just apart of being human. The wonderful thing about music and actually life in general is that you never stop learning and there is always someone better than you to aspire too. The only thing that you need to get you there is time, practise and the want to get there. No matter what this need is the most important. People pick up on that vibe and will love you for it, an eventually give you a gig because of it. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it, you just have to know what your goal is and once you've reached that find another one! A manager of mine once told me "if you just want to be good, you have to battle with all the millions of others who also just want to be good. Its easier to achieve the goal of being the absolute best, because there are a lot less people in the world with this goal in their mind. Therefore you dont have to battle as many people to get there." Good luck, its an awesome journey to be on I really hope you have a lovely time getting to where you want to be and have achieved everything you set out to be when you look back on it.

x

[arabassist]

I've been playing for several years now and I've been stagnant for about 3 years. I don't remember the last time I learnt something new and changed my playing style or knowledge about music. I believe it's because I never jam with other people and I've never been a band, I only play along to my favourite songs or just jam to random chord progressions. Music is too much of a personal thing for me.There's no driving force for me to play lots and improve as much as possible, and yet I still call myself a bassist and can't stop talking about it. I think if I had more gear with me - like a real amp that actually works (my current one only seems to play one range of tone) and I finally susses out how to use my effects pedal properly I'd be more motivated to get better at that instrument.

[jakenewmanbass]

I can't 'REALLY' play the bass.... YET, is the only answer you need from this pro of 20yrs+

[Linus27]

Like Chlo_treacher, I have also been very fortunate with my bass playing. Been signed, toured, TV and radio sessions, working with top producers and artists and even been on the front cover of a magazine when all my dream ever was when I started was to record a CD, get a song played on the radio and maybe do a gig in europe.

I agree with the old saying that the more you practise and put into it the more you will get out of it. However, I would also add that its mighty important to stop, walk away and come back. A short break of a few days to clear your head really helps re-focus and you will be amazed at how much you have absorbed and perhaps things you were struggling with become easier. So don't look at practising as a regime or a must do for the sake of doing it.

However, the most important thing for me which I was told by pure accident under a different context is to listen to everything, every genre of music. So many bedroom warriors or pub players slag of other genres of music and refuse to listen to it because its uncool or they don't like it. To me this is so shortsighted. Music is music and you can always learn something and improve your own playing by listening to other players, be it pop, jazz, rock, metal, reggae etc. Just don't be precious about it, just absorb everything. Many great players in all forms of music. My wife has now gotten used to me playing totally different styles of music back to back. I would play some Miles Davis or Rage Against The Machine and then put onThe Promise by Girls Aloud and she would go, why the hell are you playing that crap. I just say check out the bass line and she then gets it

[daz]

I cant [i]'really [/i]play' if by[i] really[/i], you mean play to a high standard. I do however, now know that I have defintely improved over the last 6 months. I have been playing bass for 2 years now. For the first year I slowly improved, then i sort of got into a rut, or at least think I did? Its sort of hard to tell. I know i still dont know the frets like I should do thats for sure! But there has been an improvement since the summer.

This came about because I tried to play some of my favorite pieces by JJ burnell and Jah Wobble, These were pieces that I had tried before. I first started to attempt them maybe after 6 months of playing, and had been unsucsessful. I could pick the notes out with a little less hesitation, but the best you could say about it was that i played the correct notes in the wrong rythym, or in stacatto fashion with no rythmic flow. I thought to myself that as I still had got nowhere with those pieces that the conclusion was that I had not moved forward at all.

The reason that months later I knew that I[i] have[/i] improved at all, is that I can now play these same favourite tracks and they sound almost as good as the originals. My fingers are moving smoother and my hessitation has gone (at least from songs that I know well) I do sometimes have a problem with playing in front of stangers, if its someone who i know can play.

I still have a long way to go i know that. But i was watching some of the teaching videos on Scott Devin's new website, and he made me realise that once you get to a certain standard, you then have a choice. You can carry on like you are and maybe get very slowly better. Or you can knuckle down and get some hard practice in every day. Hard practice means regularly at least an hour a day of practising things like chord tones, scales and Modes every day. It does not mean noodling way for 3 hours.

Noodling is not practice, and whilst it may be enjoyable in the long run it is not helpful, unless done in conjunction with a regular practice regime, when it can be done as a sort of little reward to oneself after putting in a few hours of proper practising. Where it might come in usefull. Such as after practising the blues scale over the frets for an hour the other week. My noodling self reward later, was trying to come up with things based around the blues scale.

I need to keep up a proper daily practice regime now one has been started. What I really need I suppose is now to find people to jam with. Easier said than done though.

Edited December 11, 2011 by daz

[Chlo_treacher]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1323611165' post='1464973']
I cant [i]'really [/i]play' if by[i] really[/i], you mean play to a high standard. I do however, now know that I have defintely improved over the last 6 months. I have been playing bass for 2 years now. For the first year I slowly improved, then i sort of got into a rut, or at least think I did? Its sort of hard to tell. I know i still dont know the frets like I should do thats for sure! But there has been an improvement since the summer.

This came about because I tried to play some of my favorite pieces by JJ burnell and Jah Wobble, These were pieces that I had tried before. I first started to attempt them maybe after 6 months of playing, and had been unsucsessful. I could pick the notes out with a little less hesitation, but the best you could say about it was that i played the correct notes in the wrong rythym, or in stacatto fashion with no rythmic flow. I thought to myself that as I still had got nowhere with those pieces that the conclusion was that I had not moved forward at all.

The reason that months later I knew that I[i] have[/i] improved at all, is that I can now play these same favourite tracks and they sound almost as good as the originals. My fingers are moving smoother and my hessitation has gone (at least from songs that I know well) I do sometimes have a problem with playing in front of stangers, if its someone who i know can play.

I still have a long way to go i know that. But i was watching some of the teaching videos on Scott Devin's new website, and he made me realise that once you get to a certain standard, you then have a choice. You can carry on like you are and maybe get very slowly better. Or you can knuckle down and get some hard practice in every day. Hard practice means regularly at least an hour a day of practising things like chord tones, scales and Modes every day. It does not mean noodling way for 3 hours.

Noodling is not practice, and whilst it may be enjoyable in the long run it is not helpful, unless done in conjunction with a regular practice regime, when it can be done as a sort of little reward to oneself after putting in a few hours of proper practising. Where it might come in usefull. Such as after practising the blues scale over the frets for an hour the other week. My noodling self reward later, was trying to come up with things based around the blues scale.

I need to keep up a proper daily practice regime now one has been started. What I really need I suppose is now to find people to jam with. Easier said than done though.
[/quote]

I get what your saying however I think it differs from player to player, If I were to try and force myself to daily practise the stuff like scales and modes that I dont really like it would drive me up the wall and probably just make me want to stop playing all together. Its useful to know scales and modes, yeah this is undeniable. but PLAYING is the most important, to remember why you do it and why you love it. No aspect of music should be a chore, music is basically a way of celebration and expression which people do because they love it. So why make yourself do things that stop you feeling or thinking that way? To be more educational? In my own personal experience the brain just shuts off, stops taking any information in and then you get frustrated and give up trying to do what you set out to do. Its like saying to an painter the only way you can get better at painting is by daily writing down explanations of what brush strokes you need to learn and how to make various colors and stretching canvas' and the theory behind painting but never touching paint brush to paper when actually all you want to do is paint a picture!

From teaching I also have to say getting my students to just find music that gets them excited to learn has been far more effective. Of course all of my students are taught the basics of reading notation, playing with proper technique so they dont injure themselves, a technique for ear training the notes on the fret board, how to lock in with a drummer etc etc but all of it is done from playing songs. The information they learn that is 'theory' based is allowed to seep into their brain at their own pace (all the information and 'answers' are there on the page, they just get used to seeing it more often) but all they have to do is play a song that they like. Everything else comes after. You'll be amazed at how little problems I have getting my students to practise too, compared with a lot of teachers I know merely because I dont force a regime on them.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Chlo_treacher

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='arabassist' timestamp='1323609212' post='1464939']
I think if I had more gear with me - like a real amp that actually works (my current one only seems to play one range of tone) and I finally susses out how to use my effects pedal properly I'd be more motivated to get better at that instrument.
[/quote]

Not sure if you're being entirely serious here, but having a limited amp is not a drawback to improving your playing - if anything it allows you to focus on the sound [i][b]you [/b][/i]are making rather than what's being added by a box full of electronic components. The same goes, in spades, for your effects pedals. Chuck them in the bottom of your wardrobe until you need them.

If you want to broaden or extend your playing, leave the settings on the amp and the bass untouched, and focus on what notes to play, how to play them, and when.

That's from my lofty perch of six years' experience - that's [u]six whole years[/u]!