Anyone who can REALLY play remember when they were proper rubbish and largely clueless...??

[icastle]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1323625003' post='1465165']
Not sure if you're being entirely serious here, but having a limited amp is not a drawback to improving your playing - if anything it allows you to focus on the sound [i][b]you [/b][/i]are making rather than what's being added by a box full of electronic components. The same goes, in spades, for your effects pedals. Chuck them in the bottom of your wardrobe until you need them.

If you want to broaden or extend your playing, leave the settings on the amp and the bass untouched, and focus on what notes to play, how to play them, and when.

That's from my lofty perch of six years' experience - that's [u]six whole years[/u]!
[/quote]

+1
I'm a month short of 32 years of playing and I totally and unreservedly agree with that.

EDIT: When I started playing, effects pedals were the domain of guitarists and bass amps were 'posh' if they had more than three controls...

Edited December 11, 2011 by icastle

[northstreet]

[size=5][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][sub]An interesting post. This is a long story to say something quite mundane but bear with me. Got my first bass in 1974 (that's 37 years ago - Good Lord!). I'd recently bought Quadrophenia and those basslines had a profound impact on me. So I spend hours learning them, and stuff by John Paul Jones, and Jack Bruce, and Roger Waters et al until I thought I was ready to play in a band. So I start auditioning, and there's me with all the fast runs, fancy riffs and alternative modes - and a sharp slap in the face from the reality that most bands just want (and in fact just need) someone to hold it all together - simple and tight being the watchwords. And over the intervening years my real respect has been for the guys who can do just that - play for the band, and make it sound good while keeping control of the natural urge to play more than is absolutely needed. So no, I can't do all the fancy stuff - but can I [i]really[/i] play bass - well that's for others to judge, but that's what I aspire to. [/sub][/font][/size]

[Zachary Critchell]

I only learned how to play in sync with a drummer very resently (last 3 months) from 4 years of playing without playing, so learnung is ongoing

[JTUK]

If you are a flash player, then you need to pick your moments.
I think it is nice to have a trick or two or be pretty watchable.
You'll know if you are connecting if you get featured and you get decent ..not polite.. applause.
Some gigs can be about that a bit... and some gigs most certainly aren't.

Know your market,

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1323034988' post='1458593']
The key to getting to the stage you described (for me, anyway) was summed up by the teacher I had when I'd been playing for about 18 months. He started talking about hearing certain things that "were in my playing", which might be riffs, or turnarounds, or little chromatic walk-ups, or whatever.

He was right. I hadn't noticed it until he pointed it out, but you start to build a library of "auto-licks" which you play automatically and instinctively. The more of that there is going on, the more time you have to think about where you're going next, or to decide whether to throw in that riff or not. As your playing gets more relaxed, you sound more laid-back and (IMHO) better.

Eventually you find that you can be thrown into a song you've never heard before, in a style you don't usually play, and within a minute or two you'll be playing a perfectly reasonable bassline to it.
[/quote]

+1 for Happyjack
I've been playing for 35 yrs and you develop as you mature with the bass. Some guys do it quicker than others. Sometimes that is down to commitment and available time to practice and rehearse. Some of it is down to how often you play live gigs where you need to be on your game. Many things contribute to developement but it will appear one day and you'll say "that's how it works" and all will be well in your world of bass.

I've more or less always played in rock / progressive style bands however at an early stage in my learning i decided i wanted to play better. Not necessarily faster but more fluent. I first of all started looking at Jazz-rock bands and then moved into jazz itself listening to people like Jeff Berlin, Percy Jones & Jaco Pastorious. Although i was never gonna be that good i did learn some nice "runs" and melodies from their style. When put into practice within the rock fraternity it gave me an edge over other bassists who had only ever focused on learning pure rock style.
To this day i still use that technique to impress at auditions or jam sessions.

Enjoy the learning experience as it happens rather than trying to force it too quickly.

All the best
Dave

Edited December 12, 2011 by dmccombe7

[daz]

[quote name='Chlo_treacher' timestamp='1323623624' post='1465134']
I get what your saying however I think it differs from player to player, If I were to try and force myself to daily practise the stuff like scales and modes that I dont really like it would drive me up the wall and probably just make me want to stop playing all together. Its useful to know scales and modes, yeah this is undeniable. but PLAYING is the most important, to remember why you do it and why you love it. No aspect of music should be a chore, music is basically a way of celebration and expression which people do because they love it. So why make yourself do things that stop you feeling or thinking that way? To be more educational? In my own personal experience the brain just shuts off, stops taking any information in and then you get frustrated and give up trying to do what you set out to do. Its like saying to an painter the only way you can get better at painting is by daily writing down explanations of what brush strokes you need to learn and how to make various colors and stretching canvas' and the theory behind painting but never touching paint brush to paper when actually all you want to do is paint a picture!

From teaching I also have to say getting my students to just find music that gets them excited to learn has been far more effective. Of course all of my students are taught the basics of reading notation, playing with proper technique so they dont injure themselves, a technique for ear training the notes on the fret board, how to lock in with a drummer etc etc but all of it is done from playing songs. The information they learn that is 'theory' based is allowed to seep into their brain at their own pace (all the information and 'answers' are there on the page, they just get used to seeing it more often) but all they have to do is play a song that they like. Everything else comes after. You'll be amazed at how little problems I have getting my students to practise too, compared with a lot of teachers I know merely because I dont force a regime on them.
[/quote]

I understand where you are coming form Chloe. but at this stage of my learning the bass, Now i am no longer a beginer. I dont actually find it a chore practising Triads or chord tones etc. Now that i can see where they are coming from, and now I am more able to see how they fit into the make up of many tunes, I find them more interesting to learn. Certainly more so than when i first started and tried to learn scales by boring repetition.

The only thing i have any bother with is learning the fretboard, which i should know off by heart after 2 years. Anyone have any suggestions ?

[louisthebass]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1323717299' post='1466227']
I understand where you are coming form Chloe. but at this stage of my learning the bass, Now i am no longer a beginer. I dont actually find it a chore practising Triads or chord tones etc. Now that i can see where they are coming from, and now I am more able to see how they fit into the make up of many tunes, I find them more interesting to learn. Certainly more so than when i first started and tried to learn scales by boring repetition.

The only thing i have any bother with is learning the fretboard, which i should know off by heart after 2 years. Anyone have any suggestions ?
[/quote]

Hi Daz,
This may help - I've been using this quite a lot:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0sS0hhfezQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0sS0hhfezQ[/url]

Cheers,
louisthebass

[4000]

[quote name='Chlo_treacher' timestamp='1323623624' post='1465134']


I get what your saying however I think it differs from player to player, If I were to try and force myself to daily practise the stuff like scales and modes that I dont really like it would drive me up the wall and probably just make me want to stop playing all together. Its useful to know scales and modes, yeah this is undeniable. but PLAYING is the most important, to remember why you do it and why you love it. No aspect of music should be a chore, music is basically a way of celebration and expression which people do because they love it. So why make yourself do things that stop you feeling or thinking that way? To be more educational? In my own personal experience the brain just shuts off, stops taking any information in and then you get frustrated and give up trying to do what you set out to do. Its like saying to an painter the only way you can get better at painting is by daily writing down explanations of what brush strokes you need to learn and how to make various colors and stretching canvas' and the theory behind painting but never touching paint brush to paper when actually all you want to do is paint a picture!

From teaching I also have to say getting my students to just find music that gets them excited to learn has been far more effective. Of course all of my students are taught the basics of reading notation, playing with proper technique so they dont injure themselves, a technique for ear training the notes on the fret board, how to lock in with a drummer etc etc but all of it is done from playing songs. The information they learn that is 'theory' based is allowed to seep into their brain at their own pace (all the information and 'answers' are there on the page, they just get used to seeing it more often) but all they have to do is play a song that they like. Everything else comes after. You'll be amazed at how little problems I have getting my students to practise too, compared with a lot of teachers I know merely because I dont force a regime on them.
[/quote]

Nice to see that someone understands what it's really all about. If the analysing comes before the music, you've got it the wrong way round IMO(and I believe Armand Sabal-Lecco and Richard Bona would agree with me).

FWIW, when I started on bass it never occurred to me that I wouldn't be able to play things other people could. I'd always been lucky enough to be very good at most of the things I tried my hand at growing up (wish that was still the case, I seem to be incompetent at almost everything nowadays), so I always thought it would come pretty naturally. Strangely enough, it did, possibly because I thought it would. Although having said that I used to play for hours every day, which doubtless helped.

Of course there are always going to be certain types of lines people find difficult (in the early days I could play the hell out of Stanley Clarke but occasionally struggled with Steve Harris for some reason!), due to particular coordination issues.

[martin8708]

I'm probably still rubbish now after nearly 30 years of playing, but I have got into more bands by being Enthusiastic and dependable and by providing a simple bass line to a song , the trick is to forget about how " you " sound , but how you make the whole band sound .
I have seen many a speed -god or fretless wonder get the boot from a band because they are stealing the lime light from the singer / guitarist ,and that will never do!!
My practice is to switch the radio on and just try to play along to each song , it sounds awful at first, but it will slowly get better as your ear develops and starts to recognise chords and different styles of music . Try and get into a band, you learn alot quicker with a good drummer and generally guitarists are happy to help with chords , etc .
Most of all , have fun .

[spinynorman]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1323803992' post='1467361']
My practice is to switch the radio on and just try to play along to each song , it sounds awful at first, but it will slowly get better as your ear develops and starts to recognise chords and different styles of music . Try and get into a band, you learn alot quicker with a good drummer and generally guitarists are happy to help with chords , etc .
Most of all , have fun .
[/quote]

Radio, or MP3 player on shuffle. Another thing I do is just pick the bass up, don't even plug it in, and just play whatever comes under my fingers, without thinking about it too much. At first it either sounded like 12-bar blues or Velvet Underground on a really bad night, but over the years I've got more and more usable bass lines out of it.

[daz]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1323880774' post='1468200']
Radio, or MP3 player on shuffle. Another thing I do is just pick the bass up, don't even plug it in, and just play whatever comes under my fingers, without thinking about it too much. At first it either sounded like 12-bar blues or Velvet Underground on a really bad night, but over the years I've got more and more usable bass lines out of it.
[/quote]

I play my basses unplugged maybe 80% of the time.

[JTUK]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1323921464' post='1468723']
I play my basses unplugged maybe 80% of the time.
[/quote]

Hardly ever do this..always amplified

All the little nuances need to felt and heard..and some styles you just can't get acoustically.. IMO.

[mckendrick]

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1323033303' post='1458563']
I just want to get this off my chest.

I'm very much a beginner and still largely in root/5th land....[/quote]
Don't underestimate yourself, REDLAWMAN... I've been playing for the best part of forty years and still reckon I'm proper rubbish and largely clueless.

I didn't ever let that put me off tho', playing bass is what I wanted to do and I enjoy it. I play in three bands and help run a music workshop for adult learners.

I KNOW I'll never be Percy Jones or Oteil Burbridge, and as much as I admire and enjoy their work, I'm kind of resigned to knowing I'll never be able to play like that.

Three notes in various keys on the 'board got me through eight numbers at the college end of term concert last Friday night. James Brown's "I Feel Good", Ray Charles' "What'd I Say", and Nina Simone's "Do I Move You" went down particularly well and had the audience dancing and not knowing whether it was me or Ray Brown in the band.

I'm not saying don't aspire to better things, I'm not saying don't keep learning, I'm not saying don't try and emulate great players....

....but at the same time I'm saying DON'T UNDERESTIMATE YOURSELF and in the meantime PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS.

It'll all come in time, man - keep at it!

Cheers.

[icastle]

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1323033303' post='1458563']
I'm very much a beginner and still largely in root/5th land, very slowly starting to learn how to join-up chords a little more creatively.
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with playing root and 5th.
It may not be hugely creative but it works, albeit at a somewhat basic level, and sometimes all a tune needs to carry it along nicely is simplicity.

[Delberthot]

Next year I'll be celebrating the 25th anniversary since I picked my Marlin Slammer out of the Littlewoods catalogue.

Everyone learns at a different pace, some get on better with a teacher and some don't, some have a natural ability and some need a help in the right direction. Everyone is different.

At 36, I only found out this year that I have Aspergers. that would explain a lot, especially about how I can pick up stuff and retain it for years. With the possible exceptions of Jazz and big band music there are only so many ways a song can progress and my brain holds all patterns. I couldn't consciously tell you what they are but I just know them.

Between the ages of 12 and 14 I only played the E string with my thumb. Sounds bizarre when I think about it now but it might explain how I managed to learn to play quickly by running my hand up and down that single string to play songs. It all changed when I found Appetite for Destruction by Guns n Roses. I actually wore out the cassette (what's a Cassette? I hear you cry) bought it on CD and wore out the CD

[Mr H]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1324182523' post='1471584']...and wore out the CD
[/quote]

Eh? What happened to [i]Perfect Sound Forever[/i]?!