Here's an interesting one...

[REDLAWMAN]

I had the pleasure of playing through an Ampeg Heritage SVT-CL for a while.

Apart from giving me enduring tinnitus when played only at room-practising level, developing a problem with the tubes and weighing more than my girlfriend, the sound it produced (through my sealed NV412) was simply astonishing.

The only way I can describe it is 'musical'. The notes were sharp, vibrant, crystal-clear, 'bell-like' and harmonious: in a nutshell, it sounded simply beautiful and MUSICAL.

By musical, I mean it sounded gorgeous to my ear at relatively low volumes: each of the notes had an inherent musical quality which my ears registered as 'gorgeous'.

No matter what, neither my Littlemark (with or without a Sansamp BDD) nor a Streamliner 900 can produce notes which sound anything close to those from the all-valve head: as nice as both of those amps are, the notes are simply in an entirely different league in terms of 'musical beauty' to my ear. Although difficult to put into words, they sound- by comparison- dull, lifeless, one-dimensional and artificial.

My question here is four-fold really:-

Is what I'm describing the inherent difference between all-valve heads and SS/Hybrid amps?

Why did the Ampeg sound so 'musical'?

Do all all-tube heads (eg. the Hiwatts) sound so musical?

Is it possible to get this 'musicality' from a SS/Hybrid head?

Thanks everyone.

Edited December 10, 2011 by REDLAWMAN

[bertbass]

Yes, it's the valve sound. SS/ Hybrid? From not at all to quite close. My opinion of course.

[Mr. Foxen]

Limited eq make it hard to totally duff up the sound, that seems to figure fairly highly. The harmonics thing makes frequencies you think you should hear become apparent in the frequencies you actually hear. compression and distortion smooth out a lot of unpleasantness.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1323518845' post='1464107']
I had the pleasure of playing through an Ampeg Heritage SVT-CL for a while.

Apart from giving me enduring tinnitus when played only at room-practising level, . . . .
[/quote]

Tinnitus is a strange form of 'pleasure'.

[REDLAWMAN]

Much like Spey casting.....

(and I adore Spey casting...).

Edited December 10, 2011 by REDLAWMAN

[Jack]

Some SS heads get damned close, not properly though. There is a massive size/weight trade off that may make tube amps seem unnecessary in a gigging situation, but for some nothing else will do.


A lot of 'that' sound comes from the power amp, the way they break up when turned up at high volumes is much more pleasing then when SS amps start to break up. This ability to be fully cranked and still sound nice (better in fact) is why a lot of people will try and convince you that a 'tube watt is louder' or some such rubbish.

[REDLAWMAN]

I'm talking playing it at low volume, though; the sort of volume for practising alone in the house. I never came close to 'break-up' volume, Jack.

Edited December 10, 2011 by REDLAWMAN

[Mr. Foxen]

Only power up breakup is avoided with low volume. The preamp is going to be running as hard wherever the master is. And the Ampeg pre is pretty fiddly with gain stages, so bunches of valve colour.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1323536885' post='1464371']
Much like Spey casting.....

(and I adore Spey casting...).
[/quote]


At least Spey casting is only frustrating (for me, anyway) and not physically damaging (usually!).

[Monckyman]

I work with a bassist who uses an SVT II and insist it`s the only thing that allows him to hear everything he plays wherever he stands.
He isn`t particularly loud or bassy,and won`t have any D.I in he monitor mix, just the cab mic.
I have to agree, the amp has a sort of salt and pepper flavour that others don`t,and it gives an almost 3d texture to the sound.
I`ve recently being messing about with my SVP pro, and it`s close.

[andyonbass]

I think you're right about the sound quality, but after (too) many years of an 8x10 wrecking my back, my car, (I even knocked my front door frame out of the wall once!) and struggling up stairs and then back down again it finally dawned on me that 95% of the punters don't even notice or care.
I have now made the trade off to lightweight gear and you know what? Its not so bad sound wise and my backache has gone!

[xgsjx]

Does having tinnitus & a bad back give you an Ampeg rig?
If so, where can I pick mine up from.

[Muzz]

I loved mine back when I was younger, fitter, and much more enthusiastic about lugging massive kit around - there's an amount of kudos in some areas (mostly non-bassists) about turning up with an SVT and fridge. I genuinely find my lightweight rig produces the same effect live, with 90% less mither. The RH450 reproduces that power amp breakup very nicely, too - I preferred it to a lot of the other lightweight stuff which actually have preamp valves.

I thought the Ashdown Drophead sounded absolutely lovely, mind. Shame they don't do it as a separate head. For less money.

[Anders]

As said,and I agree,it's the difference between a good tubeamp compared to many solidstate amps.It's probarbly because of the headroom and the transformers or whatever.
I don't know any amp able to deliver that kind of nonmuddy,firm,punch-through lowend without effecting any other area.
The Orange AD200 MK3 can also but not nearly the same amount.
My experience of using an SVT is that it doesn't have to sound so loud from your amp and cab.You will hear yourself anyway,even if you don't use tons of mid or whatever to punch trough like you would have to from many other amps.It sits well in the mix and the main part of the sound is down where the bassguitar is.So,that leaves room for the others and you're not competing with them,you are making music with them.
Atleast that is how I see it anyway with the rocktone i'm after.
Edit: And with the meat in that amp you don't always need that big cab.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Anders

[brensabre79]

I was told once that valves tend to amplify odd harmonics more and transistors favour the even harmonics. MosFet gets quite close to a valve sound too - I think a lot of Ampegs have a MosFet power stage, valve pre-amp.

Needless to say, you'll probably never get a true valvey sound from a solid state rig. I do think the typical Ampeg sound has A LOT of mid frequencies in there, so you'll be hearing plenty of the odd harmonics in that frequency range.

[Davo-London]

Now you see every time I try an SVT head I think, why does anyone bother with valves? I absolutely cannot stand the sound the SVT heads. All that colouration is too much. Each to his own. And if you find the sound you love then you are very lucky. It took me 25 years to find that sound!

Cheers
Davo

[bertbass]

What's Spey casting?

[xgsjx]

Standing in the middle of the river Spey with a fishing rod perhaps?

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1323868120' post='1467952']
I was told once that valves tend to amplify odd harmonics more and transistors favour the even harmonics.
[/quote]

I thought it was the other way round generally. There are exceptions though. With a class A valve pre-amp you do get even order harmonic distortion, but with a class AB push-pull valve power section you get mainly odd order harmonic distortion. Tape saturation favours odd order harmonics. All very odd, as it is often quoted that the even order harmonics are the ones needed for 'warmth' to a sound.

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Ampeg have been pretty consistent with their sound over the last 40 years, which is feat when you consider what they've been through as a company. [/font][/color]

[color=#222222][font=Arial]In the past I've toured with the SVT fridge and rehearsed with the 810 and an SVT3PRO and I've always loved the sound. From the start the SVT was always considered to be the peak of tube tone for bass. Other amps came close but never equalled the SVT, but there's no way I would be able to carry that lot around these days so I don't even think about Ampeg. [/font][/color]

[color=#222222][font=Arial]I don’t understand why Ampeg haven't taken their sound and made the jump into great lightweight gear. They don't seem to know how to do it, which is a shame. [/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 16, 2011 by chris_b