Are Amps Worth Repairing?

[cytania]

Just branching off from my SWR SM-500 saga as it's truck me that I'm already £55 down and if I throw more at the offending amp I'm a fair way to having purchased an Ashdown Little Giant 1000 from Thomann for £234.

Now the SWR originally retailed for £1500, you can now get it for £499 from Bass Direct, I think mine was £320 third hand. But really this just reflects the rapidly declining costs in the electronics world. I know SWR is meant to be a luxury ride but at present it's giving me the heebie jeebies with it's 'sometimes I fart and buzz, sometimes I don't' routine.

C'mon persuade me not to lose faith in old school amps...

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]I wouldn't buy an Ashdown for £10, but that's just my view. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]What's the problem with the SWR? I'd get an estimate, assuming its not £100's, and get it fixed. It'll be a far better amp at the end of the day. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][font=Arial] [/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font]

[Monckyman]

They`ve already "fixed" it for him, by tightening the input socket for £55,which left his farting and buzzing problem unsolved
I look forward to seeing how they react to your mail.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Monckyman

[chris_b]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1323685164' post='1465645']
....They`ve already "fixed" it for him, by tightening the input socket for £55,which left his farting and buzzing problem unsolved
I look forward to seeing how they react to your mail....
[/quote]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]I’m not sure I understand your comment. Who are "they", and why should "they" be "reacting"?? [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]If "they" can’t fix it I'd demand a refund and take the amp somewhere else.[/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]

[4 Strings]

I've found that there's a charge for pulling it apart, finding the problem and stating the cost of fixing it, ie once you let the menders have it you're pretty committed already.

I also think it would be worth taking it back and letting them know its not solved so they try again (if that step hasn't already been taken).

[Monckyman]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1323686129' post='1465666']
[font=Arial]I’m not sure I understand your comment. Who are "they", and why should "they" be "reacting"?? [/font]

[font=Arial]If "they" can’t fix it I'd demand a refund and take the amp somewhere else.[/font]
[/quote]
Apologies,I wasn`t clear. Cytania the OP has already paid to have this problem fixed, and "they" didn`t fix it enough.
He has emailed the Fixers with his complaint and we wait with breath baited for the reply.

[razze06]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1323676027' post='1465571']
Just branching off from my SWR SM-500 saga as it's truck me that I'm already £55 down and if I throw more at the offending amp I'm a fair way to having purchased an Ashdown Little Giant 1000 from Thomann for £234.

Now the SWR originally retailed for £1500, you can now get it for £499 from Bass Direct, I think mine was £320 third hand. But really this just reflects the rapidly declining costs in the electronics world. I know SWR is meant to be a luxury ride but at present it's giving me the heebie jeebies with it's 'sometimes I fart and buzz, sometimes I don't' routine.

C'mon persuade me not to lose faith in old school amps...
[/quote]

Can't speak for your specific amp or case, but in general you do uneconomical repairs (more than the value of the amp) only if you are particularly attached to the thing.
I personally had no problem spending more in servicing an amp than I paid for it (peavey mark III, HH, homemade valve amp), because I liked the sound and general feel of the things.

Bad service doesn't help, though...

[Mr. Foxen]

Pretty much all the amps I've repaired have been worth repairing. I'm not very good at repairing though, so there are some I've not yet figured how to do.

[Mykesbass]

I harbour a bit of a gripe over modern electronic equipment and the fact that it is now so cheap it has become a throwaway item. So old lead solder was harmful to the environment - I bet the problems the amount of X Boxes, PlayStations and Class D amplifiers that have been dumped as they cannot be repaired far outweighs the damage the lead ever did. Rant over!

Check out the recommended repairers on this site, get it fixed properly and enjoy a high quality amp for a good few years!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1323694351' post='1465841']
I bet the problems the amount of X Boxes, PlayStations and Class D amplifiers that have been dumped as they cannot be repaired far outweighs the damage the lead ever did. Rant over!
[/quote]

Mostly if you don't bin them the lead doesn't get to the environment. But also, check how sane all the 'senior' amp techs are.

[cytania]

Well the good news is I'm getting the amp seen to under the original repair ticket. Email appers to have galvanised them, so amp is back in the shop. However wether they'll dig deeper and come up with £150 for a transformer is another matter. I'm hoping a bit of rebiasing will do the trick.

All the same, Gallien Kruger's MB200 only £225 at Bass Direct. Makes you wonder...

Have loads of old lead solder if anyone wants it, been in the family since the 70s, but my soldering skills are truly awful nowadays.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1323694351' post='1465841']
I harbour a bit of a gripe over modern electronic equipment and the fact that it is now so cheap it has become a throwaway item. So old lead solder was harmful to the environment - I bet the problems the amount of X Boxes, PlayStations and Class D amplifiers that have been dumped as they cannot be repaired far outweighs the damage the lead ever did. Rant over!
[/quote]

It's a rant I also subscribe to.

However, if you're handy with a soldering iron it's often possible to fix things for very little cost. The trick, of course, is to determine the fault but the web can often come to the rescue, particularly with high volume consumer items.

Last week one of my PC LCD screens died. Well, not completely, the backlight wouldn't stay on for more than a few seconds rendering it completely useless. On a whim, I entered the LCD screen model number and 'backlight won't stay on' into google and found loads of info suggesting it was a common problem due to the failure of one (or more) of four transistors.

So, I quickly tracked down an online supplier for the transistors and ordered 10 of them (I have two of the same screens). I replaced the transistors yesterday and the screen is now back to normal. Component cost (including the spares I bought) was less than a tenner.

But a commercial repair would probably be around £50 for an hour's labour plus the cost of a replacement board - because few repair shops can handle component-level fault-finding - so probably at least £100 +vat, which would be ridiculous for a 17-inch screen given the price of a brand new one.

So, yes, modern consumer electronic goods are basically economically unrepairable.

Still, I was pleased to have done my little bit for the environment. A little DIY can go a long way.

[JTUK]

I've skimmed this..but IMO, they didn't fix it.

Get an old school guy to check it over and do the job properly.

I have just the man..but he is in Kent.

My SWR400 cost £35.00 to fix...as has most of the stuff we send him.
Maybe it is because he can bench test every stage on the design...and there isn't that much wrong, but of course, that diagnosis is beyond the likes of me.

My SWR only failed because it fell off stage under power. I've used it for 20 years or so..and the original design and build of that amp was very highly specced, he confirms.
This is why the old ones are so good...IMO.

[cytania]

Thanks JT, I have another local name lined up if Hot Rox under-achieve again but I'm giving them this chance to come good on my initial money.

Great to hear the positive views on SWR. I liked the fact that under lid it's a preamp board and a power board, plenty of space round them and that aluminium case - all adds up to great heat dissipation, so the fan isn't working hard. The preamp tube is easy to get at too.

I really hope it pulls through and gets it's balls back. My mate's 300w Ashdown pushed the barefaced cab in a very convincing manner, making me wonder if the SWR had been gradually getting thinner sounding for some time. Maybe part of why I needed to turn the bass up a few weeks ago.

[paul_5]

+1, All good amps are worth repairing. Modern stuff (with a few exceptions) are all made really cheaply, using the most economically viable (cheapest) components, as opposed to higher quality 'old skool' technology. I'd certainly never getting rid of an SWR in favour of anything that Ashdown make.

[cytania]

When I started this thread I picked Ashdown sort of at random, well it had to be a curent cheap bass head - could have been the Hartke 2500 but ooh, is there a lack of love in the room for Ashdown. Think I'll give them a wide berth...

[icastle]

The component cost of repairing an amp usually make it a worthwhile exercise, it's the labour costs that determine whether it's economical to do so or not.

I started off my career as a sound and lighting tech before drifting into IT some 20 years ago, so fortunately haven't had any experience of paying for repairs.

[markorbit]

Ashdown are ok but I wouldn't recommend the Little Giant which seemed to have some reliability issues. The new MiBass should be a better option.

[JTUK]

A repairs are invisbale to most of us, we have no idea what they guy had to do to charge us for the fix..so trust and integrity is key.
Am hearing stories of late of a shop round here that changes valves as a first fix on valve amps... and was caught out as the shop forgot they had already
harged them for valves in the first visit..

Having said that...our old school guy can test the valves as well..and he is straight and likes to chat. He is pretty much retired now, but has some great stories
and knows his stuff. He even said the design of the pre amp stage was 'wrong' in his eyes. He has a history/pedigree as a designer and hold a few name patents/copyrights.
In this case, you may need ther pre valve looked at.
These old guys are like gold dust ..!!

As for the SWR, SM400 had no fan at first and runs VERY hot. Earth lifts and fans came later, but also, so did the bass sub fix..as the earlier models drained power pushing sub bass levels that were unuseable, IMO...
I can't use my SM400 with bass past 12... if that. The EQ is extremely powerful with the semi para 4 band...

Hint.. an updated version of this excellent amp is the Thunderfunk... does everything the SM can do..but is hard not to get a good sound. Whereas the SM..as capable as it is.. can give you the round around at times.
The SM has that tubey vibe to it whereas the TF doesn't quite get it, IME..not that that worries me at all...in the slightest.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1323712408' post='1466137']
+1, All good amps are worth repairing. Modern stuff (with a few exceptions) are all made really cheaply, using the most economically viable (cheapest) components, as opposed to higher quality 'old skool' technology.
[/quote]

With respect, that's a load of rubbish. Unless you mean 'boutique' stuff where people spend silly money for the sake of it, things have always been made with the cheapest viable components. Modern stuff is generally made to far higher design and manufacturing standards - they have to be for any reasonable volume production - and the high level of production automation makes reliability far higher these days.

I don't notice any great demand for a return to the 'good old days' of 1960s car manufacture and I'm sure many people still remember how unreliable televisions used to be.

I've got nothing against nostalgia for old stuff but let's not lose track of reality along the way. ;-)

[Slipperydick]

I spent 30 years repairing amps, among other industrial and consumer electronic goods for a living, and now that I am sort of semi retired, will likely be going back to it in the new year. Modern kit is not a repairer friendly as it used to be, and not as solidly built, but it is more reliable, not entirely because of build quality though, components used are on the whole more reliable as well. As has been said, look at things like TV sets and such, in the 70s they were expected to fail twice a year ( and a good living could be made just repairing them )
When I started in the early 70s most amps were on metal chassis and hand wired, by the mid 70s, I was picking up work repairing solid state amps because the old hands were struggling with the technology, by the late 80s, it was valves that people were afraid of. I was lucky as I trained when valves were dying out in most other things, so I cut my teeth on both.
In the 80s/90s I owned a company repairing all sorts of kit, one thing I realised early on was that some engineers have a sort of instinct for fault finding, others don’t. While you obviously need to know what your doing, a degree in electronics doesn’t always help. Its not that I’m knocking academic qualifications mind. I’m just thinking back to some of the engineers I knew or employed. Fault finding requires a very different set of skills to those needed to design an amp or talk loads of technical twaddle.

Most amps are worth repairing, but only if you have a competent guy, who can fault find to component level, and quickly, doing the job.

[danhkr]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1323723917' post='1466343']
When I started this thread I picked Ashdown sort of at random, well it had to be a curent cheap bass head - could have been the Hartke 2500 but ooh, is there a lack of love in the room for Ashdown. Think I'll give them a wide berth...
[/quote]

Well, slightly OT, but to offer an alternative, nearly 2 years ago I replaced an 18 month old SWR WP400 with an Ashdown ABM500 and along with the Ashdown tone being infinitely better (IMO of course), I've not had a single issue with it. The SWR on the other hand was returned twice under warranty.

Granted, I'm not a huge fan of the SWR tone, but I wouldn't let one bad experience with one amp put me off a brand for life like many seem to. Search long enough on this forum and you'll find equal measures of pro's and con's for most companies; I've always found its best to find these things out for yourself.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1323778928' post='1466839']
Modern kit is not a repairer friendly as it used to be, and not as solidly built, but it is more reliable, not entirely because of build quality though, components used are on the whole more reliable as well. As has been said, look at things like TV sets and such, in the 70s they were expected to fail twice a year ( and a good living could be made just repairing them )
[/quote]

I'd certainly agree that modern electronics is not as repairer-friendly as old equipment. PTH boards can be more easily damaged than tag-strip constructions while modern SMDs can be a total nightmare. But I'd say that a large part of the "solidly built" issue is to do with the nature of the components and design. An old-school valve amp with big heavy power supplies and other discrete components needed to be 'solidly built' simply to adequately support the components, but modern, often tiny, components weigh far less and therefore do not need such 'solid' overall assemblies.

I wouldn't call the average smartphone a particularly 'solid' construction but they'd need one hell of a bump to dislodge a component from the circuit board - in fact I'd bet such a thing would not happen before the thing was totally destroyed anyway. However, an amp full of valves and other heavy big and components needs a good degree of solidity just to hold things in place when bumped about because the soldered joints alone were not strong enough.