4 Strings Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9a625k_jk Probably seen it before, and, ok, so its Strats but the same processes apply to basses. 8 bodies being routed at a time, is it 12 necks? Fascinating. There's a better one I've seen making Rickies. Can someone tell me how having these machines operated in Mexico or up the coast in the US changes the guitar to one being twice the price - apart from labour costs? (There is another but the guy from Fender in it explains that the wood with which they make the bodies changes the tone more than the pickups, didn't want to bring that argument to the table...!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1323791622' post='1467105'] Can someone tell me how having these machines operated in Mexico or up the coast in the US changes the guitar to one being twice the price - apart from labour costs? [/quote] Erm ... why "[i]apart from labour costs[/i]"? That's like asking why a house in Hartlepool is worth less than a house in Chelsea - apart from location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 These are MUCH more interesting - though I advise you to mute the uber-cheesy music. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HXR1mhQ_34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HXR1mhQ_34[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj8Oo-_OrUU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj8Oo-_OrUU&feature=related[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5GGtlL2Xc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5GGtlL2Xc&feature=related[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Simple fact is that the USA labour will be more costly, the same reason a USA spector is so much more than the Euro equivelent (which are both considerably more than the asian ones!) There are other factors and you could get into long discussions about quality control etc etc but the fact is these instruments we play for the most part (the company of hand built boutique basses obviously excepted) are built for a consumer market. I think many players forget that Leo Fender (the obvious name to spring to mind) did not invent the electric guitar, he commericalised it. He made it possible to produce them quickly, efficiently and most importantly cheaply. When you look at the history of the car a name you probably wont hear or be familiar with is Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot. A frenchman who in the 1700's put a steam engine on a wheeled frame and invented the car. However it is Henry Ford is who is 'father' of the car because he made them accessible. Edited December 14, 2011 by throwoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Firstly Cugnot no more invented the car than Trevithick. The first put a steam engine on wheels to draw a cannon, the second did the same to drag coal trucks in a mine, both self propelled but neither related to the car. Also I think Carl Benz is generally seen as the father of the motorcar. Ford pushed the boundaries of mass production. This actually makes your simile more appropriate as Leo's products are phenomenal designs in respect to being so ready for mass production. Anyway I said apart from the cost of labour. If labour (ok, and property values) is the only extra cost is that a good reason to pay the extra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Indeed, Benz is the 'natural' father of the car. Back on topic, there was a time when MIM Fenders were deliberately inferior in hardware, electrics and used unselected wood (meaning you could get poor quality wood or great tonewood, but no guarantee either way). However they've really upped the quality of Mexican Fenders and even Squiers to the point where there's much more cross-over with the US models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hofner videos are incredible, that is mechanised rather mass produced. Chiselling the neck joint by hand! I wonder how old the videos are? You can see that, perhaps, manufacturing them in a country of cheap labour may make a difference to the product and that its possible to have a 'good' one or not so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1323806275' post='1467397'] Indeed, Benz is the 'natural' father of the car. Back on topic, there was a time when MIM Fenders were deliberately inferior in hardware, electrics and used unselected wood (meaning you could get poor quality wood or great tonewood, but no guarantee either way). However they've really upped the quality of Mexican Fenders and even Squiers to the point where there's much more cross-over with the US models. [/quote] I agree, certainly the finish on the Squier models is second to none and many have said that their Squier is their best instrument. There is something unmeasurable about having a bass made where they started, rather than where the labour is cheap. It's up to us whether we want to pay the extra for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 How about this one, compare with the individual attention given to constructing the Hofner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmZAmyNid9Q&feature=related Fascinating again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1323806275' post='1467397'] Back on topic, there was a time when MIM Fenders were deliberately inferior in hardware, electrics and used unselected wood (meaning you could get poor quality wood or great tonewood, but no guarantee either way). [/quote] I've found this to be very much the case with Stagg cymbals ('hand-made' in China alledgely using ex-Zildjian machinery)- there's a huge number of total dogs out there put when you get a good one it's REALLY good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1323806749' post='1467405'] There is something unmeasurable about having a bass made where they started, rather than where the labour is cheap. It's up to us whether we want to pay the extra for that. [/quote] I know what you. And yet..... About 6 or 7 years ago I bought a Heritage Les Paul, handmade by ex-Gibson employees in the old Gibson factory using much of the original Gibson tooling. Bought it sight-unseen and collected it during a business trip to the US a few years back. After much fettling it's not a *bad* guitar (especially now it's got some semi-vintage Gibson pickups in it, rather than the original Seymour Duncans) but it's not a great Les Paul either. I do have a great Les Paul (and have been privileged to play a few) but it was made by Tokai as a non-export model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 They aren't using the same set of machinery to build both the American's and the Mexican's anyway are they? Hence the extra routs on MIM basses where they have been held by the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1323808243' post='1467432'] I've found this to be very much the case with Stagg cymbals ('hand-made' in China alledgely using ex-Zildjian machinery)- there's a huge number of total dogs out there put when you get a good one it's REALLY good. [/quote] You just never know. Went to Music Live a few years back, played a £69 AXL Tele and went 'WOW'. Tried a whole bunch of teles, but that one was special, so of course it came home with me. Sold it a year later to fund a Gibson Flying V (which wasn't so great, and went out the door sharpish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1323805372' post='1467380'] 1600's when he wasn't born until the 1700's??? But there is dispute as another lesser known man built one around the same time and Drove to Belfast in one and there was an earlier French guy who might have done it too. [/quote] Apologies, typo! now edited! [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1323805450' post='1467382'] This actually makes your simile more appropriate as Leo's products are phenomenal designs in respect to being so ready for mass production. [/quote] That is exactly what I was saying.. not sure how I have been so misread by many! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1323808256' post='1467435'] I do have a great Les Paul (and have been privileged to play a few) but it was made by Tokai as a non-export model. [/quote] My guitarist collects Fenders (he has about 30 of them) & also has a few other nice instruments from Gibson (including a Hummingbird & a Dove), but his main guitars he uses in the band are a Fender Tele & a Les Paul made by..... Tokai. Gets a brilliant sound out of it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The bloke I bought it from was selling it to pay for a Gibson VOS '58 (mine is a '59 replica). TBH there was almost nothing to choose between them except the Gibson had an even fatter neck and weighed about 2lb more. Oh, and had a list price somewhere north of 3 grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 [quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1323853642' post='1467685'] Apologies, typo! now edited! That is exactly what I was saying.. not sure how I have been so misread by many! [/quote] Your point was spot on, just the details about car history invited some disagreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 "Remeber you are unique- just like everyone else". Seriously though, the reason it is more expensive is labour costs. People have this odd idea that somehow just because someone stuck a couple of bolts in a guitar in a "rich" country, then that must mean the quality will be somehow better. Yes, US employees may get paid better but at the end of the day they also have to spend more money on living then somewhere like mexico so I hardly think it is likely to make them give more of a sh*t about their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janmaat Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There is a lot of money spent on anything after production - that is, quality control(s), the setting up of the instrument, and on marketing, fewer shops, better service. That probably amounts to more of the price difference than parts & assemblage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 [quote name='janmaat' timestamp='1323898933' post='1468593'] There is a lot of money spent on anything after production - that is, quality control(s), the setting up of the instrument, and on marketing, fewer shops, better service. That probably amounts to more of the price difference than parts & assemblage. [/quote] Is that actually true? What do you mean by 'fewer shops'? Marketing seems, to me, to be the same and Fender service is reknown for being in competition with Microsoft regardless of what side of Arizona. Someone once noted that most of the employees at Corona are Mexican. Of course individual attention in the Custom shop occurs in he US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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