Do you think that "Real" Musicians era is going to end ?

[MusicLover20015]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Hi[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Background Info:[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Im a music student who is currently at Grade 8 Bass (Rockschool). Im going to apply for university this year and do a Full 3 year music degree in my speciality - Bass. [/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Current:[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Now i've been told by Loads of people that i shouldnt opt for this career as its pretty much going to die in the next couple of years. I understand that nowadays unlike before musicians were the ones that were recording, now its all being sampled by some guy sitting at a Mac. [/font] [font=comic sans ms,cursive] [/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][u][b]Session musicians are becoming a thing of the past ? [/b][/u][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I mean, im not looking for finishing Uni and becoming a famous mega rich star because of my bass skills but I wanted to be playing in maybe big bands, record for artists and if that dosen't work out i dont mind teaching [/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I just wanted to get some views from you guys who are all musicians and what you think about this ?[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Any advice would be great [/font] [font=comic sans ms,cursive] [/font]

[JakeBrownBass]

To make money as a musician nowadays is by have your fingers in all pies.

In terms of recording(session) work, yeah it has gone down massively, but people are still recording tv/radio jingles.

I reckon live music is as popular as it has ever been so there is live work out there.

Theres always the function/wedding market, teaching, cruises, writing etc......

Works out there, you just need the drive to [b]work[/b] for it!

Edit;

Also, in terms of education, it's up to you. Whether you think you need the education, the experience & the knowledge that you'll be taught, or if you think your ready to jump in the big competitive market that musicians work in.

Edited December 14, 2011 by JakeBrownBass

[jackers]

first off welcome to basschat

secondly, it is great that you have something you really want to do with your life, so I would say go for it. Sure there is a chance it won't work, but that isn't the end of the world, and you can sort something else out. However, if it does work, then you are doing something that you love and want to do, which to me is easily worth that risk.
Alot of people these days are too scared to do anything that isn't a 'safe option' so they try to discourage everyone else from taking those risks they deem unsuitable.

Yea, it may well be harder to get work as a session musician than it used to be, but there is still plenty of work out there, you just have to put in the effort. (Which I'm sure you will seeing as it's something you genuinely want to do.)

[Chris2112]

The day of the session musician is long gone, especially for high profile players like Anthony Jackson etc etc. They're lucky to have proved themselves and can ride out their days based on their name playing jazz gigs as they see fit.

I say this all the time, but studying music at University has to be one of the silliest ideas going these days. It's a lovely thing to do if you have no aspirations to own a house or get a job, but in the real world, a music degree is as much use to an employer as as a wad of used toilet paper. You might enjoy indulging your hobby for a couple of years but beyond university and the meagre pickings of the music world you'll not have much to show for the colossal debt you've accrued.

[Big_Stu]

They said the same during the synth invasion of the New Romantic era - aaaah great days! but we've still had stacks of guitar based bands since then. Just swings & roundabouts, get your nose to that grindstone & good luck!

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323887951' post='1468341']
I say this all the time, but studying music at University has to be one of the[b] silliest ideas going[/b] these days. It's a lovely thing to do if you have no [b]aspirations to own a house or get a job[/b], but in the real world, a music degree is as much use to an employer as as a wad of used toilet paper. You might enjoy indulging your hobby for a couple of years but beyond university and the meagre pickings of the music world you'll not have much to show for the colossal debt you've accrued.
[/quote]

What absolute drivel. I think that's the silliest thing i've ever read on this forum!

[Chris2112]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1323888203' post='1468352']
What absolute drivel. I think that's the silliest thing i've ever read on this forum!
[/quote]

It must be great having your head in the clouds. But when you get to the real world, an employer will have no problem chucking your CV straight in the bin. There are still people going after proper degrees these days, after all.

Well, you might not get a career [i]per se[/i] but a music degree may get you a job. There will always be toilets in need of scrubbing and burgers in need of flipping, I suppose.

[jackers]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323887951' post='1468341']
I say this all the time, but studying music at University has to be one of the silliest ideas going these days. It's a lovely thing to do if you have no aspirations to own a house or get a job, but in the real world, a music degree is as much use to an employer as as a wad of used toilet paper. You might enjoy indulging your hobby for a couple of years but beyond university and the meagre pickings of the music world you'll not have much to show for the colossal debt you've accrued.
[/quote]

I used to think exactly the same as you, until I had a few experiences that made me realise how closed-minded and wrong that was. When it comes down to it, everyone has the right to make their own choices, irrespective of what you or I think of them.

Maybe a sensible idea would be to have some form of 'backup plan'. I.e. some form of qualification or something that you could fall back on in the event it doesn't work out. (Not saying that it won't work out, just trying to suggest as many options as possible )

[Chris2112]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1323888347' post='1468356']
Maybe a sensible idea would be to have some form of 'backup plan'. I.e. some form of qualification or something that you could fall back on in the event it doesn't work out.
[/quote]

Like a degree, you mean? Tends to come in handy when you're looking for a job.

[MusicLover20015]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1323887725' post='1468337']
To make money as a musician nowadays is by have your fingers in all pies.

In terms of recording(session) work, yeah it has gone down massively, but people are still recording tv/radio jingles.

I reckon live music is as popular as it has ever been so there is live work out there.

Theres always the function/wedding market, teaching, cruises, writing etc......

Works out there, you just need the drive to [b]work[/b] for it!

Edit;

Also, in terms of education, it's up to you. Whether you think you need the education, the experience & the knowledge that you'll be taught, or if you think your ready to jump in the big competitive market that musicians work in.
[/quote]

I do want to go to uni just to gain more knowledge on my instrument and being a musician overall. Also its a degree so it sets me apart from others if you get what i mean

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323888337' post='1468355']
It must be great having your head in the clouds. But when you get to the real world, an employer will have no problem chucking your CV straight in the bin. There are still people going after proper degrees these days, after all.

Well, you might not get a career [i]per se[/i] but a music degree may get you a job. There will always be toilets in need of scrubbing and burgers in need of flipping, I suppose.
[/quote]

What your missing is that when studying music it's not about the piece of paper at the end of it. It's about developing yourself as a musician in a place with like minded people.

Also, expand on what a proper degree is please.
Seems everyman & his dog has a degree nowadays so surely its about real life experience.

I'm sorry but your way to narrow minded about the situation & your comments are pigheaded.

I'm in uni, i pay my way from working outside of uni, my work outside of studying music is music.

Get my point? If you've got the drive to want to make a living from music, you can.

Fair enough i won't have a fancy car, a fancy custom single cut, a really nice house etc.... but what i will have is the feeling of waking up everyday and going to work doing the job i love & chose to do.

Edited December 14, 2011 by JakeBrownBass

[jackers]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323888399' post='1468358']
Like a degree, you mean? Tends to come in handy when you're looking for a job.
[/quote]

By no means does it have to be a degree. I have a few friends who have done exactly what the OP is planning to do, and while they were doing it they picked up some extra qualifications. (One did an apprenticeship with a building firm, another gained a qualification in architectural planning.)

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='MusicLover20015' timestamp='1323888473' post='1468359']
I do want to go to uni just to gain more knowledge on my instrument and being a musician overall. Also its a degree so it sets me apart from others if you get what i mean
[/quote]

The first part is fine. The second sentence does't mean squat mate.

[MusicLover20015]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323888337' post='1468355']
It must be great having your head in the clouds. But when you get to the real world, an employer will have no problem chucking your CV straight in the bin. There are still people going after proper degrees these days, after all.

Well, you might not get a career [i]per se[/i] but a music degree may get you a job. There will always be toilets in need of scrubbing and burgers in need of flipping, I suppose.
[/quote]

Teaching will still be an option and i doubt that you can become a teacher without the degree ... That may just be my backup but in all fairness that would be my last option, i would try and do something about it

[OliverBlackman]

firstly as someone who's been studying music for 3 years i will say its a great thing to do and there is lots you can get out of it. For me there were two key areas. 1 Professional tuition i couldnt get in leicester. 2, The chance to join in with some really talented people the same age as me.

I've not regretted it at all as becoming a professional performing musician is something im very passionate about. The only thing is is that its not like university that all my mates have gone to (ie getting pissed for 3 years). The work you have to put in and hours of practice is very very very tough. The music industry is full of some very talented people so competition is tough. You just have to smarter, and more determined than everyone else.

As a piece of paper a degree is unlikely to get you many gigs. But the experience you have got from taking part in the degree. That will get you gigs.

So if you really want it do it!

[Randy_Marsh]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323888337' post='1468355']
It must be great having your head in the clouds. But when you get to the real world, an employer will have no problem chucking your CV straight in the bin. There are still people going after proper degrees these days, after all.

Well, you might not get a career [i]per se[/i] but a music degree may get you a job. There will always be toilets in need of scrubbing and burgers in need of flipping, I suppose.
[/quote]

Aren't you at RNCM Jake? One of the best colleges of music in the country? I'm sure a good degree from somewhere like that will mean nothing when applying for something...

[MusicLover20015]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1323888609' post='1468365']
The first part is fine. The second sentence does't mean squat mate.
[/quote]

What i mean is that having a degree on my CV would set me apart from someone who hasn't. Looking at whats happening around here you only get employed nowadays on what you have on your CV rather than word of mouth

[Chris2112]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1323888568' post='1468363']
What your missing is that when studying music it's not about the piece of paper at the end of it. It's about developing yourself as a musician in a place with like minded people.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not think or work like that and so places a great deal of importance on the piece of paper you receive at the end of it, and in these days of recession and job cuts, will probably not be overly enamoured to receive a CV that says "degree in music studies".

I daren't say employers aren't looking for self indulgent types, but they are looking for people with skills and knowledge they can use. Being an expert at [i]solfege[/i] does not mean much in the real world.

[jackers]

[quote name='MusicLover20015' timestamp='1323888813' post='1468379']
What i mean is that having a degree on my CV would set me apart from someone who hasn't. Looking at whats happening around here you only get employed nowadays on what you have on your CV rather than word of mouth
[/quote]

I do understand what you are saying, but that shouldn't be a big factor in why you go to uni. With the job market as it is, and the fact that there are so many students, just having the degree doesn't get you as far as it used to.

[OliverBlackman]

Forgetting most of whats been posted already which is just bollocks, after you've decided you want to study music. You have to decide where and what skills you need to get a spot at that university/institute ect.

[seashell]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323887951' post='1468341']
The day of the session musician is long gone, especially for high profile players like Anthony Jackson etc etc. They're lucky to have proved themselves and can ride out their days based on their name playing jazz gigs as they see fit.

I say this all the time, but studying music at University has to be one of the silliest ideas going these days. It's a lovely thing to do if you have no aspirations to own a house or get a job, but in the real world, a music degree is as much use to an employer as as a wad of used toilet paper. You might enjoy indulging your hobby for a couple of years but beyond university and the meagre pickings of the music world you'll not have much to show for the colossal debt you've accrued.
[/quote]

You could say this about any non vocational degree. (By vocational I mean anything that carries a professional qualification with it eg medicine, physiotherapy etc). People still do non-vocational degrees because they will give you transferable skills that employers appreciate. And because they have a love for the subject, of course.

@ the OP -
If you manage to scrape a living out of music - a bit ot teaching, a bit of gigging etc, you're is unlikey to earn enough to have to pay back the loan anyway! I say that only partly in jest. It's a lifestyle choice really. You may never get rich but at least you'll be doing what you love.

And if you have to re-think your plans and go in another direction eventually, at least you'll know you've tried.
You won't be sitting there in 20 years time thinking 'I could have been a contender'.

Good luck with it.

[OliverBlackman]

and in terms of the music industry. its all word of mouth!

[BottomE]

Welcome to the forum. You'll get a lot of difference answers to your very good question on this forum.

First off i'd say the decision is a biggy and one that will influence the rest of your life so choose carefully. I'd follow that up with there isn't a wrong or right decision - its just a decision and what you do with the outcomes will determine how you get on.

Studio session work is rarer i would say at the moment than it was before the cut and paste generation came into being. There is still work on cruises, hotels, pit work, high end function stuff etc but it is a global market with auditions using Skype. I know of 3 guys at the moment working the ships all doing a lot of playing and having a ball. 2 of them studied music, 1 of them is insanely highly qualified having post degree stuff, 1 has done 3 years at uni and the other chap has never studied music "formally". They are all equally successfull.

Do you need to go to university to do that kind of work? I would say no. If you can read AND busk you should be good to go - you can get experience on the job and have a lot of fun doing it.

All that said you might have a ball at uni and meet some like minded souls, form a band and go International

Whatever you decide i wish you luck

B

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Randy_Marsh' timestamp='1323888729' post='1468374']
Aren't you at RNCM Jake? One of the best colleges of music in the country? I'm sure a good degree from somewhere like that will mean nothing when applying for something...
[/quote]

I am yeah, but i didn't go so i can have RNCM written on my CV. I worked full-time for 4 years before making the decision to go to university, doing a job i hated, wishing i was making money from music. I just wasn't ready as a musician to do it so i took the opportunity to study there for my own development, not for the 'degree'.

[xilddx]

Scott Thunes

"If you're going to school to learn how to be a musician, you're not learning how to be a rock star, and you're not learning how to be famous. You're learning to play music- that's it! It doesn't mean you get a band, it doesn't mean you hook up with friends ... it doesn't mean dick! You spent $5,000 on school? Great! That means you spent $5,000 on school. Now, get a job. And I don't mean in the musical world-I mean [i]get a job[/i]."

My view is that music schools have to make money, they need LOTS of students in order to do this, and LOTS of advertising to get those students. I think a LOT of these students are being sold a dream, and I think a LOT of these students may not have the capability to develop the whole package necessary to get enough work to survive as a musician without a regular job.

I think that at the moment, there is only space for the competent, confident and imaginitive players who know how to network, be reliable, nice to be around, have good personal hygiene, know when to keep their gobs shut and play what's required, and get it right very quickly and save the studio or artist time and money. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I really feel. Most work is got by word of mouth and connections. Just ONE good job could lead to another and another. The biggest asset you will have as a musician wanting to get gigs and sessions is trust and praise from the trustworthy and praiseworthy.

All I know is I would hate the life of a session musician. That's why I have a day job and play with bands and musicians who make music I love. If one of these artists break, I'll have to decide what to do next.