Do you think that "Real" Musicians era is going to end ?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1323963069' post='1469261']
I remember when the gramophone was invented and we all thought us musicians would be out of a job since there was no need for loads of people to play music anymore
[/quote]

You can smile all you like mate , that is EXACTLY what happened!

Before the invention of the 'gramaphone record', every piece of live music any of us ever heard, even on the radio (which predates recorded music) was played by a bunch of men and women with proper grown up instruments. You would sit in your bedroom in LA and listen to music that was, at that very moment, being played in a studio somewhere in New York. You watch a movie, the music was played by someone in the pit. The world was full of dance bands and musicians that made a living touring 12 months of the year all of the country. The US was chock full of bands and musicians and, for Black folk particularly, it was a prestigious/high status job. The introduction of recording undermined all of that and it was finally killed off by the invention of the microphone which meant that the singer, previously a minor novelty, came to prominence and the bands got smaller and smaller until they all but disappeared (Duke Ellington was the only band leader not to pack in in the late 40s - even Count Basie went down to a 9-piece). Live music was also killed off by the introduction of the 'disco' which, let's face it, is just a bloke playing records. To be a musician - buy an instrument, do 10,000 hours practice and then scrabble for gigs. To run a disco - buy the gear and you're off.

[stevie]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1323963069' post='1469261']
I remember when the gramophone was invented ...
[/quote]
That would make you about 140.

[markstuk]

Indeed, proof that ragtime keeps you young.. :-)

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1323964541' post='1469288']
That would make you about 140.
[/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1323964017' post='1469272']
You can smile all you like mate , that is EXACTLY what happened!

Before the invention of the 'gramaphone record', every piece of live music any of us ever heard, even on the radio (which predates recorded music) was played by a bunch of men and women with proper grown up instruments. You would sit in your bedroom in LA and listen to music that was, at that very moment, being played in a studio somewhere in New York. You watch a movie, the music was played by someone in the pit. The world was full of dance bands and musicians that made a living touring 12 months of the year all of the country. The US was chock full of bands and musicians and, for Black folk particularly, it was a prestigious/high status job. The introduction of recording undermined all of that and it was finally killed off by the invention of the microphone which meant that the singer, previously a minor novelty, came to prominence and the bands got smaller and smaller until they all but disappeared (Duke Ellington was the only band leader not to pack in in the late 40s - even Count Basie went down to a 9-piece). Live music was also killed off by the introduction of the 'disco' which, let's face it, is just a bloke playing records. To be a musician - buy an instrument, do 10,000 hours practice and then scrabble for gigs. To run a disco - buy the gear and you're off.
[/quote]

Good one!

[JellyKnees]

[quote]
Live music was also killed off by the introduction of the 'disco' which, let's face it, is just a bloke playing records.
[/quote]

You can blame the late Sir Jimmy Saville for that apparently...although that could just be him self-mythologising.

Now then, now then, jewellery, jewellery etc

[lowdown]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1323962091' post='1469248']
I for one would not attempt to speak advisedly (certainly not to the extent of offering advice) on global economic matters just because I have a bank account, but quite a few chaps seem to think they have a handle on the music industry because they own a bass
[/quote]



On another note Jake - Westminster council has just had an attack of this sh*ts after hearing about 'Possible High Court action'
Must have been that letter you sent them.


[i]'Parking update[/i]
[i]You may have read in the press about Westminster's plans to introduce new parking charges, in a small area of central London on evenings and Sunday afternoons, from January 2012. The council has now postponed the implementation of these proposed policies until after the Olympic and Paralympic Games next year, following a High Court decision to consider the proposals in more detail through a judicial review.[/i]

[i]London faces many challenges in 2012 and we do not wish this public debate to become a distraction to preparations for the Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Westminster has an important part to play in both these national celebrations and will be devoting substantial effort to making them both a success.[/i]

[i]As a result of this we have decided to postpone implementation of the new parking rules until after the Olympics even if we are successful at the Judicial Review hearing'[/i]

[i]Garry[/i]

Edited December 15, 2011 by lowdown

[oldslapper]

Oh forgot to mention.....the UK isn't the only place to live.
A music degree with whatever "speciality" will be appreciated in a lot of other countries, probably more so.....the USA for instance.

[MusicLover20015]

Well i guess i should say thanks for all the opinions on this topic, and NO i have not been trolling or hiding behind the sofa. I think i have mentioned before that as well as playing bass i also do the tech side, meaning using logic, sampling etc etc. Also i wouldn't mind teaching. Its the Musical career which i want to follow. Also Im not going to university just for the paper as many of you think. Im going because i know i will get taught by some great musicians, i will increase upon my theory even more and more so make those contacts everyone is mentioning. At the end of the day I think that whatever choice I make will be the right one, im not looking to get that mansion or the ferrari. Just a nice lifestyle, be able to stand on my feet and look after my parents when they get older.
Thats all i want.

[lowdown]

[quote name='MusicLover20015' timestamp='1323969468' post='1469396']
Well i guess i should say thanks for all the opinions on this topic, and NO i have not been trolling or hiding behind the sofa. I think i have mentioned before that as well as playing bass i also do the tech side, meaning using logic, sampling etc etc. Also i wouldn't mind teaching. Its the Musical career which i want to follow. Also Im not going to university just for the paper as many of you think. Im going because i know i will get taught by some great musicians, i will increase upon my theory even more and more so make those contacts everyone is mentioning. At the end of the day I think that whatever choice I make will be the right one, im not looking to get that mansion or the ferrari. Just a nice lifestyle, be able to stand on my feet and look after my parents when they get older.
Thats all i want.
[/quote]

You are going for all the right reasons.
Enjoy, have a good time - and good luck with it all.


Garry

[MusicLover20015]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1323970008' post='1469409']
You are going for all the right reasons.
Enjoy, have a good time - and good luck with it all.


Garry
[/quote]

Thank You

And Dont Worry I Will Keep You All Posted

[xilddx]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1323970008' post='1469409']
You are going for all the right reasons.
Enjoy, have a good time - and good luck with it all.


Garry
[/quote]

Big plus one on that.


[quote name='MusicLover20015' timestamp='1323970290' post='1469416']
Thank You

And Dont Worry I Will Keep You All Posted
[/quote]


And you don't have your head in the clouds either, although I think that's nice to have as long as you have perspective. Had I the opportunity and enough confidence in myself to do this when I was 20, I probably would have done.

You sound like a man with a plan! Very best of luck!

[lowdown]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323972317' post='1469437']
You sound like a man with a plan! Very best of luck!
[/quote]

This is always good.
I had one this morning............
Keep the feck away from Basschat. BIG FAIL.

Garry

[MusicLover20015]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1323972610' post='1469440']
This is always good.
I had one this morning............
Keep the feck away from Basschat. BIG FAIL.

Garry
[/quote]

LOl

I will still be here trynna grab 2nd hand basses xD

[Twigman]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323887951' post='1468341']

I say this all the time, but studying music at University has to be one of the silliest ideas going these days. It's a lovely thing to do if you have no aspirations to own a house or get a job, but in the real world, a music degree is as much use to an employer as as a wad of used toilet paper. You might enjoy indulging your hobby for a couple of years but beyond university and the meagre pickings of the music world you'll not have much to show for the colossal debt you've accrued.
[/quote]
+1
Do a degree in something that will give you skills to fall back on and pursue session/live work to pay for the degree that employers will be looking for.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1323974103' post='1469454']
+1
Do a degree in something that will give you skills to fall back on and pursue session/live work to pay for the degree that employers will be looking for.
[/quote]
You've read this thread right?

[Twigman]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323974365' post='1469458']
You've read this thread right?
[/quote]
I read as far as the post I quoted....I've since read on.

i think the OP is barking to major in Music(Bass)......I understand why he wants to do it but I think he's totally hat stand.

[Mog]

[quote name='MusicLover20015' timestamp='1323969468' post='1469396']
Well i guess i should say thanks for all the opinions on this topic, and NO i have not been trolling or hiding behind the sofa. I think i have mentioned before that as well as playing bass i also do the tech side, meaning using logic, sampling etc etc. Also i wouldn't mind teaching. Its the Musical career which i want to follow. Also Im not going to university just for the paper as many of you think. Im going because i know i will get taught by some great musicians, i will increase upon my theory even more and more so make those contacts everyone is mentioning. At the end of the day I think that whatever choice I make will be the right one, im not looking to get that mansion or the ferrari. Just a nice lifestyle, be able to stand on my feet and look after my parents when they get older.
Thats all i want.
[/quote]

Seems like you answered your own question lad, good luck with it.


[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1323962091' post='1469248']
A few others have chimed in on one side or another... most voices seem to be coming from those who don't work in the industry. I for one would not attempt to speak advisedly (certainly not to the extent of offering advice) on global economic matters just because I have a bank account, but quite a few chaps seem to think they have a handle on the music industry because they own a bass
[/quote]

Not trying to flame the thread but that one comes across a bit presumptuous lad.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1323974510' post='1469461']
I read as far as the post I quoted....I've since read on.

i think the OP is barking to major in Music(Bass)......I understand why he wants to do it but I think he's totally hat stand.
[/quote]
Yep, it's surely best to major in Lavatory Tissue Strategy and Production Management in today's economy .

The violinists in one of my bands both studied at the RCM and make a very decent living and get gigs with household names and major tours. They teach, do sessions and play with orchestras and pop and rock bands, X Factor, etc. The sitarist I play with studied for years with a grand master in Berklee, she makes a good living and gets prestigious gigs, sessions and composing commissions, such as the Olympics, composing with Sir John Tavener, touring and writing with Courtney Pine, The Imagined Village, Cornershop ... Our drummer in Kit's band studied at Drumtech, he's young and makes a decent living playing lots of decent gigs and by teaching. I also work with artists who only did music at school. They make a good living with recording and performing careers as band founders and members. They all share the same qualities - they are all extremely good musicians and very talented, highly reliable, very articulate, and great people to be around. They also have great passion for music and are willing to play with a band for no money if they love the music. The OP can make this happen for him too if he shares these qualities, It's what you are, not how you do it that really seems to count.

[leftybassman392]

Note to OP: I wasn't serious about the sofa, just a bit concerned that you might be submerging under the weight of such a large quantity of passionately argued but conflicting opinions (something we seem to have in endless quantities on Basschat! ). It seems my fears were groundless. You appear well capable of making intelligent decisions all on your own (something we don't appear to have quite as much of... ).

Go for it, and enjoy it!

Edited December 15, 2011 by leftybassman392

[AttitudeCastle]

I only managed to get 3 pages in before it got too depressing.

Note: Pardon me if this has all been covered but i couldn't bring myself to read 5 more pages if it goes the same way which trends suggested it may!

Please to all those who have said such things, define a real degree, the real world, and a real job?

EdwardHimSelf (sorry if i got you're username wrong, and this isn't a direct attack but just an example) You have or are studying a physics degree correct? (If not this becomes irrelevant haha!)

I was told that studying physics will earn you more or less minimum wage unless you do great things, (not saying you haven't or won't this is just another example!) and that if you actually want to study physics you're more or less giving up a fancy car and a fancy house.

You could always go into engineering but that's not the same thing, and your skills won't be used, and companies would rather employ someone with an Engineering degree over a physics degree anyway. (My father is an engineer with both a degree in physics and mechanical engineering and has worked for an oil company for 27 years now so this isn't all assumed etc)

You study music if it interests you, and you want to know more about it and develop your self as a musician, same if you wish to be a doctor, a physicist, a lawyer an IT specialist etc.

You can make a fair living doing anything with any degree, doesn't mean you'll have luxary but if you truely love what you're doing and what you will or have become you'll see the bigger picture!

If this all seems a little naive it may be because i just am, everyone is different and everyone has different lives, oppertunities and situations. At the end of it i'm just a kid so what do i know?

All this does make me not want to do anything to do with university though!

[Sibob]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323976087' post='1469484']
Yep, it's surely best to major in Lavatory Tissue Strategy and Production Management in today's economy .

The violinists in one of my bands both studied at the RCM and make a very decent living and get gigs with household names and major tours. They teach, do sessions and play with orchestras and pop and rock bands, X Factor, etc. The sitarist I play with studied for years with a grand master in Berklee, she makes a good living and gets prestigious gigs, sessions and composing commissions, such as the Olympics, composing with Sir John Tavener, touring and writing with Courtney Pine, The Imagined Village, Cornershop ... Our drummer in Kit's band studied at Drumtech, he's young and makes a decent living playing lots of decent gigs and by teaching. I also work with artists who only did music at school. They make a good living with recording and performing careers as band founders and members. They all share the same qualities - they are all extremely good musicians and very talented, highly reliable, very articulate, and great people to be around. They also have great passion for music and are willing to play with a band for no money if they love the music. The OP can make this happen for him too if he shares these qualities, It's what you are, not how you do it that really seems to count.
[/quote]

I think this is down to their hard work, not what they studied, which I think is what you're getting at.
I don't think any kind of music degree guarantees being a successful 'session' (ick hate that term) musician.
What it does allow you to do is concentrate on your playing and hone your networking skills....no-one who hires you will be fussed by the piece of paper or the type of degree at the end, thats a bi-product of the work/networking you do during the course.

So while I agree with the sentiment that technically a music degree is pointless, from the point of view that you might as well study something as a 'backup' because the actually award at the end is worthless.....doing that won't allow you the time to hone your craft like a music specific degree will.

It is also true that very few players JUST play, you gotta teach, arrange, produce, manage, write....its all part of the game

Good luck

Si

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1323974585' post='1469463']
Not trying to flame the thread but that one comes across a bit presumptuous lad.
[/quote]
It's not presumptuous if you can back it up, and I think Jake probably can.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1323977227' post='1469497']
I think this is down to their hard work, not what they studied, which I think is what you're getting at.
I don't think any kind of music degree guarantees being a successful 'session' (ick hate that term) musician.
What it does allow you to do is concentrate on your playing and hone your networking skills....no-one who hires you will be fussed by the piece of paper or the type of degree at the end, thats a bi-product of the work/networking you do during the course.

So while I agree with the sentiment that technically a music degree is pointless, from the point of view that you might as well study something as a 'backup' because the actually award at the end is worthless.....doing that won't allow you the time to hone your craft like a music specific degree will.

It is also true that very few players JUST play, you gotta teach, arrange, produce, manage, write....its all part of the game

Good luck

Si
[/quote]

Sort of. The violinists are f***ing ace sight-readers and they need to be, but they are very good improvisers too. The young drummer knows theory and is a good reader, he's also a very good improvser. Sitarist has perfect pitch and can tell you the name, and actual note, of an interval on hearing it, she could do that when she was 14, but she's not a great reader, she doesn't really need to, she has incredible ears and musical memory and never reads charts in sessions. The unschooled musicians don't know much theory and don't read much, but they are brilliant at composing, producing and playing, and understand the music industry very well. All of them are successful and do what they need to do to a very high standard in their particular sector to create and maintain success. There are all sorts of ways to achieve success in music, but you need the drive, talent and tools for what you want to do, then go and chase your dreams. That's kind of what I was trying to say.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1323977590' post='1469506']
It's not presumptuous if you can back it up, and I think Jake probably can.
[/quote]
I can assure you Jake certainly can

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323978119' post='1469516']
I can assure you Jake certainly can
[/quote]
I thought so too Nig, but I didn't want to appear presumptuous.