Gigs And The Day Job

[Paul S]

I work for myself, am exactly as busy as I want to be or need to be and pretty well please myself, lucky fellow that I am...

[the_skezz]

We do jobs around the country; if there's a gig that I really need to make it to then I have to book the day off just in case.

[xilddx]

Never had a problem, ever. Although I can foresee the odd occasion when it might.

I think a lot of people starting out gigging might be worried about a clash, I know I used to be.

[originalfunkbrother]

I work for a printer and paper company, I hardly get any weekday/night gigs but if they are out of town, I can book the day off and if its within London, my boss is accomodating enough to let me leave early.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Valhalalf' timestamp='1324054555' post='1470414']
It's difficult juggling both sometimes. I'm surprised by Pete's situation working in a music shop, I would have thought they would be a bit more understanding.
[/quote]
Music shops suffer from the dichotomy where they want to appear to be cool and relaxed but on the other hand they are a business that needs their employees to be there during opening hours to do their jobs. It's a tricky balance to achieve and I can see how in these difficult times they are finding it harder to keep the cool and relaxed side.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1324059028' post='1470486']
Absolutely no flexibility with my employer whatsoever. A real pain working saturdays as well. If I were to work through my break all that would happen is I'd get knabbed to still work to the end of my shift. Booking days off is a real nightmare, last week I had to book my leave for next year, up until April 2013, and there is talk of limiting availability.

I've recently turned down an audition with an originals rock band because I couldn't commit to the gigs, some too far off and a lot midweek.

My employer takes the stance that we shouldn't have outside interests it seems.
[/quote]


This is me, but include childcare commitments [u]and[/u] the sheer costs of rehearsals/ travel to rehearsals / gigs and you can soon see why I'm no longer in a band.
I don't want to play in a covers/function/tribute band. I want to do originals, but that doesn't pay.
I don't want to have my cake and eat it, I'd just like some cake. Please. Pretty Please.

[Delberthot]

I've been lucky with my previous jobs in that I've never had a conflict between day job and gig.

I've only been in my current role a couple of months but I don't think it would be an issue to get away early as the owner of the business is a drummer in an originals band and one of the managing directors is a singer.

We chatted last Friday at our staff night out about getting a guitarist and doing something ourselves for a bit of a laugh

[Panamonte]

I'm a radio producer and the programme I currently produce is recorded on a Friday afternoon, so Friday night gigs are generally out because I'm busy editing - although I'll take day's leave if it's worth it. Otherwise I'm lucky enough to be able to decide what shape my working week takes and I can gig accordingly.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='Chlo_treacher' timestamp='1324063381' post='1470558']

. When the students found out half of them came to me asking for private lessons outside of the shop as they really wanted to keep me as their teacher. But the shop manager put a stop to that too accusing me of stealing all his clients.
[/quote]

I'm surprised at this Chlo, it's none of his business where people have lessons, unless they had signed a lifetime contract with his shop for exclusivity. Sounds like he bullied students into not following you. Personally I agree, most students love the fact that their teacher is a working musician.
Which gets me back on topic. I'm now a peripatetic music teacher in 5 schools and have private students at home, it was the only way I could see that would give me the control over my time to play/gig. It did mean leaving the "security" of employment with pensions, sick pay, paid hols, etc...but looks like that's being errooooooded away now anyway.

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1324181278' post='1471579']
I've been lucky with my previous jobs in that I've never had a conflict between day job and gig.

I've only been in my current role a couple of months but I don't think it would be an issue to get away early as the owner of the business is a drummer in an originals band and one of the managing directors is a singer.

We chatted last Friday at our staff night out about getting a guitarist and doing something ourselves for a bit of a laugh
[/quote]

My new managing director is a bass player and that's why he insisted it was in my contract that my job comes first and music cannot get in the way

There are several musicians at work and they have the same clause

[JTUK]

We very rarely take gigs at any distance..so that helps...
We have a give and take kind of thing if work and gigs clash... and people have to realise that their own little domain
doesn't garauntee precedent over someone else'..

We try, collectively, to do the best we can and we are all on the same page in that regard.
If someone is late..and we are all set-up..it is all-hands to the deck to get them up to speed.

Once or twice a few feathers get ruffled..but you get over it..It can't be helped and no one is
doing it on purpose.

[rOB]

I'm pretty lucky compared to some here. I work office hours mon-fri. If the gig is far away and I had a few weeks notice I'd be able to book a half day.

Sadly, going by recent experience with my split up band, there seem to be jobs that just aren't compatible with a gigging schedule

[JTUK]

Sympathise with you, Pete...you would think your act would be a credit to the shop. esp if you are the only guy who pretty much plays..!!!!!
I am sure you aren't looking for favourtism and would cover the hours...in this case, I'd get the others onside.
I find if I want a favour and leave early..then I need to spread around that to others so these little resentments don't creep in.

I don't know the shop set-up but it doesn't sound like a deal-breaker..
Maybe..there might be a bit of jealousy in the set-up..?? and I can't believe you are the only player there
who needs this flexibility... what is all that about..???????

[Chlo_treacher]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1324205578' post='1471689']
Do the non musians have a similar clause 'Fishing will not get in the way of work' or 'My mid week drinking session down the bucking duck will not get in the way of work' Alot of people have 'normal' hobbies they can take to the extreme. I've known guys throw sickies over pigeons or tropical fish. One of mates Dads would go around the UK showing chickens. He bred them to sell too and when he gave up showing he went to the same shows as a judge. Also if he pulled that clause here to some of the guys I worked with who were in pipe bands he would have a discrimination suit on his desk before close of business that day.
[/quote]

+20 thinking back I once got fired for talking about music too much at work...ffs....they asked what I had been up too, so I told them. But the other employers were perfectly happy and allowed to talk shoes or their forensic science degree they were doing to their hearts content! I figured in the end if they were going to be that petty or b**chy then screw em, they weren't worth my time.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Chlo_treacher

[Prime_BASS]

fortunatly for me my working day finishes at 3:15pm and 99 times out a hundred gigs are late. however on the odd occassion that it's not local I can book the day off no problems as management are there to take over if needs be, which I would expect to be the same anywhere, thats what they are there for.
I also get saturdays off. So I'm rather lucky I guess.

As far as going forward I'd suggest speaking calmly about to whoever is in charge. Even on a saturday afternoon I cant see a music store getting that busy, not even busy enough to require 6 staff. The biggest local one to me has had 5 on during a Saturday dinner and there was me and one other person in the store. All I wanted was some strinsg.....

I wouldnt give up your holidays as you are entitled to them for working whatever you work, and not being paid for them puts your manager or whoever does payroll in a difficult situation.
You work instead of having holidays but the business is legally obliged to still pay these and you can always claim these back should you leave or something happanes that leaves a sour taste. Putting them out of pocket.

[SteveO]

Its a tough situation for most I think. There used to be a time when contract negotiations were 2 way - the company will want the employee to do xyz and work such and such hours and pay so much for it. The employee has their own wishes - for e.g. taking time off to gig - and a compromise will be reached. These days there is no impetus for companies to make a compromise. There's plenty of fish in the sea and if you don't want to submit to their demands then they'll find someone who will. Over here there are more jobs than unemployed people so employers are willing to be reasonable - in my case I made sure that I could take time off (with reasonable notice of course) and work overtime to make up for it as part of the contract. Fortunately the nature of the business means this is not a problem (we're not a shop with set opening hours etc) If or when I change jobs then this same condition will have to be part of my next contract. It's not so unreasonable and not so unusual, after all most parents will make sure their working hours fit around school times. It could be argued that child responsibilities are more important than playing music, but the principle is still the same.

I remember when I was in the UK the buzz-topic among HR was Work-Life-Balance, taking the European view that a happy employee is a productive employee. It's sad to see that this has apparently fallen by the wayside and it looks like it's gone back to the old pre-union employment model of 'work them to death and then find a replacement that you can also work to death'. I suppose the only options are search for a job that allows you the time off that you want, or become self employed.

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1324205578' post='1471689']
Do the non musicians have a similar clause 'Fishing will not get in the way of work' or 'My mid week drinking session down the bucking duck will not get in the way of work'


Alot of people have 'normal' hobbies they can take to the extreme. I've known guys throw sickies over pigeons or tropical fish. One of my mates Dads would go around the UK showing chickens. He bred them to sell too and when he gave up showing he went to the same shows as a judge.

Also if he pulled that clause here to some of the guys I worked with who were in pipe bands he would have a discrimination suit on his desk before close of business that day.
[/quote]

Whilst I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment, I was unemployed and the offer - including clause - was the only permanent position I had been offered in 4 months. I accept the clause as it will make little difference to my gigging (I only gig at the weekends anyway) and the job is just what I was looking for.

The company has a universal policy of no second jobs without prior agreement. As being a musician counts as a second job, I needed that to be included.

Makes sense I suppose

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1324227931' post='1472054']
I thought that was illegal, basically because your time out side of what the hours they pay you is none of their business and unless you are paying HMRC and keeping a full book (Which could get you a rebate on your tax) It's not a job but a hobby.

I know one of the guys I worked with had a second job as a cleaner at night. Job one tried to force him to knock it on the head. But from what I Recall they couldn't as the two didn't have the same hours. I thought the only time that could be enforced was in the case of driving where you are under the taco rules . (And I don't mean Mexican food )
[/quote]

You are probably right, but I thought it better to agree and get the job. I will not be telling them every time I gig. I think it is just so I don't gig every night and get so tired I can't perform my tasks at work.

I had a similar clause in my last position so I think it must be legal to put it in. TBH I am just happy to be working again!!!!!

[EmmettC]

My boss is very helpful, she really loves music, so she's always been great. I try to be as helpful as I can when I'm not gigging, so I hope it balances out. We have 3 tours next year though, I think that will really test our relationship, but hopefully I'll have the dates sorted soon so I can give plenty of notice.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1324228363' post='1472057']
I had a similar clause in my last position so I think it must be legal to put it in. TBH I am just happy to be working again!!!!!
[/quote]

That's the problem isn't it? They put in all these ridiculous clauses and expect you just to sit there and take it because "you're just happy to be in a job". It's f***ing sick. And I reckon it probably is illegal as well, unless it's a particular type of job.

[scalpy]

Back when I was trying to get rich and famous it worked like this.

Ring Ring- "Hello, you have reached the staff absence line, please leave your name and date after the beep."

Me- "It's me, I don't know why but I can't get the hang of defrosting chicken, I guess I'll be better after a day like last time."

Couldn't/wouldn't do it now with my current boss...

[mrtcat]

Companies are not obliged to allow people the time off but I find it sad that so many have policies and clauses to prevent people having a hobby / second income. I would hope that common sense was enough. If an employee does something in their spare time that, on occasion, requires a few hours off (in the OP's case this is something relevant to the day job too) then it's a really good management tool. By being flexible you can expect the same in return from the employee. If an employee doesn't play the game and only takes all the time then of course all flexibility with that person stops. As long as it's not constant issue and it doesn't impact on the overall running of business then as a staff respect / morale booster I would call it essential.

Our singer has just received a memo form his company to say they are now formalising their "On Call" system and he now will be on call 1 weekend in four. This means he has to be at home and sober all weekend in case they need him to attend a customer. Remarkably they say he will only get overtime for any actual call outs he attends. I told him to explore the legalities of this as it seems dodgy to me.

[SteveO]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1324229072' post='1472069']
I wouldn't say just because one place had it makes it legal. I've had a few that shall we say contestable .
[/quote]
No it's not legal. It's a breach of article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - the "Right to Work". Any company trying to enforce the 'no 2nd job' rule will loose the case, although in the real world any employee contesting it is not likely to last for very long in that job.

Of course if you take a second job and that stops you from doing your first job (e.g. through not being able to work the contractual hours) then they have grounds for dismissal, but if it doesn't stop you doing your first job then there's feck all they can do about it, regardless of anything in the contract. You can't sign away your statutory rights.

[RockfordStone]

my boss is totally unreasonable and works on the view that cos he works 24 hours a day we should too.

generally i try and get gigs for the weekend or if it is in the week, no more than an hour and a half from where i work which means usually i can make it in time.

if its a long distance one or london i will take the time off

as of yet ive not had the issue, but have had to miss some practices cos of work

[JTUK]

Most HR's in companies that I know are useless and don't know employment law...and you'd be surprised how far they will press you with
'reasonable' request/requirements that a tribunial would have a field day with.

And in these times when jobs are difficult, they aren't going to slacken off, IMO.


OT apologies