Advice on taking up double bass

[Lazy James]

Hi there, I'm a bass guitarist interested in learning double bass.
I've done some research on buying a new double bass and it looks like I'd be getting a CCB due to a limited budget(Student!), most likely one of the rockabilly styled ones from Thomann. Something better quality if I could find a bargain locally, hey I can wish haha.

At the moment I'm still at the research stage, I'd love to play DB and figure if I'm going to start, I should start sooner rather than wishing I had later on. So I'm basically looking for advice from more experienced DBers and even newer ones who could share how they got started and what to expect?

Cheers.

[thisnameistaken]

I started about 2 years ago, after 20 years of bass guitar. First up, you can get a good quality beginner bass for around £500, but it probably won't be a new bass - keep your eyes on the used market and you can get something very playable around that price point. If you buy new you will probably have to spend another £100 getting it set up and £80+ on a decent set of strings.

Tips for playing the damn thing: Take it slow and steady. Don't even attempt to play the stuff you play on bass guitar - seriously, do not judge your progress by how much of the bass guitar repertoire you can reproduce on double bass, it's a different instrument, trying to reproduce bass guitar music on it will leave you very despondent very early on. Instead work with what you've got: You will have to play less notes, so concentrate on getting the most out of the fewest notes you can play, making sure your intonation is good, and your notes are well chosen!

Get a teacher, and practise in a disciplined way. Learn correct technique for both hands, and rigourously stick to that technique. If you find yourself straying from correct technique out of fatigue, stop playing the bass and come back to it when you've rested adequately. This fatigue will set in after only 5 or 10 minutes when you first start playing - this is normal! Don't be gung-ho about it, just build up your stamina slowly. You can play again after five minutes' rest, so make sure you take that rest. Eventually you'll be playing two hours at a time, but you have to build up to it.

Oh and have fun. It's the only instrument I practise at home now because it is so much fun to play. You will find it more fun than frustrating if you get a good teacher and learn to play it correctly rather than going the trial-and-error route, you will be more accurate and articulate much faster if you have a teacher, and there will be less guesswork and more confidence. Trust me!

[Linus27]

Thisnameistaken, great post indeed sir.

[steve]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1325032942' post='1479382']

Oh and have fun. It's the only instrument I practise at home now because it is so much fun to play. You will find it more fun than frustrating if you get a good teacher and learn to play it correctly rather than going the trial-and-error route, you will be more accurate and articulate much faster if you have a teacher, and there will be less guesswork and more confidence. Trust me!
[/quote]

big +1

[Guest Jecklin]

Excellent post by thisnameistaken.

Nothing to add except seriously consider getting a bow.
Even if you intend to do nothing but slap or whatever you'll really benefit from bow practice. It exposes bad intonation and will teach you to get better left arm/hand technique than pizz alone.

Have fun

[Lazy James]

Some very useful points there!

Just a few more things, obviously double basses are going to be more fragile and tempremental than a solid body instrument, anything I should be aware of in terms of storage or maintenance?

I'm thinking it will be around mid Febuary when I look to buy one and I'll be looking to spend around £400-500, which I understand isn't a lot for a double bass but that's as much as I'll have available.

I know that I'll get more value for money going used, however I am tempted by the Thomann rockabilly bass. Not necessarily because it's called a rockabilly bass, but that it's affordable, looks good and it has a 3 year warranty. Anyone around basschat have experience of these?

I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I'm even in the position to buy, thanks for the responses so far.

[jakenewmanbass]

Radiators are a DBs nemesis, and extensive drying can cause cracking. Keep the area where you have your bass moist, a bowl of water on the floor near it will do. Or you can get humidifiers although I would think that less necessary for a ply/laminate bass.

[Silvia Bluejay]

Thomann sell good upright electric basses as well - lighter, smaller and more manoeuvrable than 'real' double basses, and they sound reasonably good even when plugged into a small amp. I got mine for slightly over 300 quid last year.

Once you start on double bass, you'll be hooked! I'm now dreaming of/lusting after a 5-string upright.

Edited December 28, 2011 by bluejay

[PaulKing]

Thomann Rockabilly basses are not amazing, but I've heard from a number of people that they are perfectly decent for someone who wants to play rock/blues/billy whatever.
There is always a downside to basses that are a bit rough ... the poor sound can disguise your technique and make it harder to play, or slow down your progress. But for hammering out 12 bars I've heard people who have been happy enough with Thomann Rockabillies. A bit higher in their range (Thoman 111) the basses are made by Strunal - they're really very good beginner basses, but start around £1000.
Thomann are a good company ... just get the most expensive one you can afford. But yes, remember you'll need to spend £80+ on strings (get Innovation Silver Slaps as your starter string, even if you don't want to slap - Thomann may put them on for you). And you may need to spend more on set up (adjusting string height etc), though Thomann will do a simple set up for you I believe.

Bass care: Get one thing clear - you're talking about a plywood bass here, not a carved instrument, or hybrid one (plywood with wood front, either carved or pressed into shape). They don't like radiators much, but they're not gonna crack like a carved instrument. They're much more robust. Keep it propped up in a corner, out of direct sunlight, away from radiators. Or even better, lying on its side if you've space.

And buy a vinyl gig bag at least if you're ever going to take it out of the house. Learn how to move it ... hold the neck and the upper lip of the C-bout (the scoop in the 'waist' of the bass). Never knock, pull or lift using the bridge.

Read up on how to change strings - you can do a lot of damage if you fiddle before you know what you're doing. The bass is held together by the string tension, and bits start falling off if you undo without care!
Learn where the bridge should stand, and how to ensure it is vertical, so you can check it's not falling when you change strings.
Learn what the bits are called ... you need to know whats going on with your tailgut, endpin, tailpiece, bridge feet, nut, fingerboard, sound post, bass bar... it's a world of fun!

enough for now...

[sarah thomas]

I started on DB a mere month ago, coming from ukulele and a summer of Ashbory mini bass. I tried to fight it, but after having a couple of tries on other people's basses, I needed a bass of my own. I got a teacher, had a lesson and dragged my teacher along to try out a used Boosey & Hawkes which came with lots of wonderful extras, like a soft case, rosin and a bow.

I practice for 15 minutes (ish) at a time, two or three times a day. I have carpal tunnel syndrome in my left wrist, so am taking extra care to keep my wrist flat - I have a full length mirror in my practice corner, to keep a eye on that wrist. I've also booked a session with an Alexander technique tutor in the new year to get more help. My debut (as in the avatar) was an end of term concert led by the wonderful Julian Martin in Cardiff. I only played one number on the upright and got my first blood blister. The bass has Helicore hybrids and I've just ordered a set of Innovation golden slaps which I'm hoping will make life easier while I'm finding my way around the beast.

Tell you something - you walk in with a ukulele and people groan. Walk in with a double bass and everyone's your mate. Great!

[thisnameistaken]

Regarding humidity issues - I've got a ply bass and it survived last winter without a hiccup. I was worrying for all the people with carved basses out there when the temperatures were hitting -17C (I would've been crapping myself if I'd had a carved bass!) but mine survived it even living in a draughty (windows here are heritage listed, pretty but pretty bloody draughty too) old house.

I don't seem to have to do anything special to keep mine in one piece, except trying (and often failing) not to bang it against door jambs.

[fatback]

You won't regret giving it a shot, and sooner rather than later is the right way. I wish I'd started sooner.

I'm only 17 months in, but this is what I've concluded:

I'd strongly suggest [u]not[/u] getting a new £500 bass. Search through the for-sales here, and you'll see a history of much better prospects at good prices from people you can trust. Real bargains sometimes too.

It's been said before, but it bears repeating - get a lesson from a teacher straight away (even before you buy a bass). If you don't get proper instruction on technique you could hurt yourself badly; it's a very physical instrument.

As said above, don't try to play your band tunes straight away. I'd say don't try to play any real tunes at all until you know what a decent technique would be, because just banging your way through a tune regardless is no good at all. Some people might say this is an extreme view, but it doesn't take many weeks to get a good idea of what technique you should be aiming for. Then you just make sure that treat good technique as more important than just getting through the tune.

This is where I'll get into trouble. In my experience, it was totally wrong to take up the bow straight away. That, in combination with the dreaded Simandl very nearly made me quit and held back my progress (until, after about three months I put both away).

In my opinion, bowing involved mastering far too many new things at the same time for a beginner. I've found it much better to break the whole process down: get the right hand pizz together using open strings. Stick with that alone for weeks. Then get the left hand going with good technique and constantly checking your intonation. That will keep you going for the next year. While you're doing both of those, build up some reading ability. THEN have a go at the bow. By that stage, your left hand won't be a problem, you'll be reading and your ears will have developed too.

Do be prepared for a lot of initial frustration, but much of that comes from the shock of finding yourself suddenly a beginner instead of an experienced bassist. The rest of the frustration comes from what I've described above: trying to master too many different aspects at once.

From what I've said, you wouldn't think it was the best fun in the world, would you? But it is.

[GarethFlatlands]

It's really difficult to get a handle on at first, I can only hope it gets easier.

But it looks cool if that helps.

[Lazy James]

Thanks for all the helpful posts so far, I have to say that basschat seems loads more inviting and full of helpful posters than any other forum I've seen!

[Linus27]

Just a quick question from me to the double bass experts. Is it worth learning on an electric double bass, for example an NS WAV or is it worth going for an acoustic double bass?

I did have one of those Stagg EUB a few years back which seemed ok but I have no experience to compare against an acoustic double bass. Due to other commitments, I could not really put the time in. Now I do have the time (kind of) and want to dabble again, I am not sure to go acoustic or electric this time.

Any advice?

[thisnameistaken]

I haven't played an EUB for years but I found them a bit difficult to get comfortable with. The DB - being more substantial - seems easier to handle.

For me, an electric upright wasn't much of a draw because I wanted an acoustic instrument and the sound of a double bass, so it was obviously going to be a double bass I bought. I thought if I'd bought an electric I would have been constantly driving myself crackers trying to make it sound like a double bass.

[ZMech]

One thing to prepare yourself for; the difference in reaction you get after saying you play double bass. Instead of a slightly patronising 'ah that's cool', in response to saying bass guitar, you get looks of genuine admiration if you say double bass. A much better reaction, especially when you're talking to a nice violinist in the pub...

[Silvia Bluejay]

... except when they look at your little girly hands and can't hide their disbelief, as in "what, YOU play bass? Double bass even??!!?? Left-handed? Naahhh."
Not a good chat-up line, really.

[Bilbo]

I actually know a woman who, at school, wanted to play the double bass but was told 'No, you can't. You are a girl and it is too physical for you'. So she didn't. THere a hundreds and thousands of female DB bass players (some of them quite good )). Same as the woman I knew who was told BY A CAREERS OFFICER that she could not be a Probation Officer because she was TOO SHORT (height was never a requirement). She is now a Senior Probation Officer, thank GOd, having got better advice but it goes to show how much damage can be done by not questioning the advice you are given.

[TheRev]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1325204177' post='1481046']
Just a quick question from me to the double bass experts. Is it worth learning on an electric double bass, for example an NS WAV or is it worth going for an acoustic double bass?

I did have one of those Stagg EUB a few years back which seemed ok but I have no experience to compare against an acoustic double bass. Due to other commitments, I could not really put the time in. Now I do have the time (kind of) and want to dabble again, I am not sure to go acoustic or electric this time.

Any advice?
[/quote]

If you want to play double bass, then get a double bass and get on with it. An EUB is more likely to help you develop bad playing habits rather than setting you up for a good DB technique.
However, if you want to play double bass, but have limited space at home/on stage/on your moped, then an electric upright will be a good compromise.

I initially chose the EUB route due to stage space limitations - I play some really tiny jazz and cider bars so my Eminence is my main gigging instrument. However, my DB is always played at home (and she comes out for bigger gigs & festivals) and the sound and feel is markedly different, good though the Eminence is. Ultimatley, I have an EUB for practical reasons but if all else were equal it would be DB all the way.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1325204177' post='1481046']
Just a quick question from me to the double bass experts. Is it worth learning on an electric double bass, for example an NS WAV or is it worth going for an acoustic double bass?

I did have one of those Stagg EUB a few years back which seemed ok but I have no experience to compare against an acoustic double bass. Due to other commitments, I could not really put the time in. Now I do have the time (kind of) and want to dabble again, I am not sure to go acoustic or electric this time.

Any advice?
[/quote]


DB is the real deal... come round to try if you like...

[Linus27]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1325265164' post='1481536']
If you want to play double bass, then get a double bass and get on with it. An EUB is more likely to help you develop bad playing habits rather than setting you up for a good DB technique.
However, if you want to play double bass, but have limited space at home/on stage/on your moped, then an electric upright will be a good compromise.

I initially chose the EUB route due to stage space limitations - I play some really tiny jazz and cider bars so my Eminence is my main gigging instrument. However, my DB is always played at home (and she comes out for bigger gigs & festivals) and the sound and feel is markedly different, good though the Eminence is. Ultimatley, I have an EUB for practical reasons but if all else were equal it would be DB all the way.
[/quote]

Yes, this is one of the issues I have, being a little limited on space but I don't want to compromise on missing out on the real deal so I may just say sod it and get a DB and worry about space later. I also have two cars which neither will be able to transport a DB which is a slight worry

[Linus27]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1325265673' post='1481548']
DB is the real deal... come round to try if you like...
[/quote]

Thanks Jake, I might just do that as I think hearing it will be enough to convince me

[ZMech]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1325341858' post='1482306'] I also have two cars which neither will be able to transport a DB which is a slight worry
[/quote]
I [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/117525-transporting-the-damn-thing/page__hl__transporting"]started a thread a while ago[/url] after thinking this. Since then my sis sold her micra before I actually had a reason to test the theories out for myself, but it sounded promising

[Linus27]

[quote name='ZMech' timestamp='1325344501' post='1482339']
I [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/117525-transporting-the-damn-thing/page__hl__transporting"]started a thread a while ago[/url] after thinking this. Since then my sis sold her micra before I actually had a reason to test the theories out for myself, but it sounded promising
[/quote]

Wow, thanks for that. Reading the first few posts about them fitting in a Micra, Fiesta's and Ka's, then my Clio will be fine by the sounds of it. I doubt it will go in My Scooby Impreza but the Clio sounds promising.