You're only as good as yer drummer!

[gjones]

I really like my old drummer. He's a great guy and we have a laugh. I just HATE his drumming! He is too flamboyant speeds up within the song (I thought it needed more energy he'll say when I make him aware of it) and if he had a choice he'd prefer to hit a cymbal (any random cymbal on a random beat) than his snare drum or bass drum! I'd brought another drummer into the band who really kept to the groove, laid down the beat and who I really clicked musically with. But the rest of the band prefer the old drummer because he's more of a showman!!!! With the new guy I can play in front of the beat or behind and the rhythm section sounds incredibly tight. He makes me sound a better bass player while the old guy makes me sound like a plodder (somebody has to keep the beat)..

I did a gig last night and the old drummer was playing and we (I) sounded absolutely awful. I had to check to see if the bass drum skin was moving to find out if he was actually playing the bloody thing because I couldn't hear it.

Keef got it right in this video. Some rhythm sections click ..........and some don't.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvKgkrEYnlQ[/media]

[mrtcat]

I feel your pain. Drummers make a band in my eyes. Ours is a great drummer but a total plonker. He endlessly harps on about doubling our fee as he thinks £250 for 2 hrs in a pub is us being ripped off even if we only bring 5 people in. I'd like a happy medium between yours and mine.

[thepurpleblob]

IMO, the drummer is the most important member of the band. In fact, if the drums and bass are solid then everybody else can get away with all sorts of nonsense!

[Monckyman]

I just had to audition a few drummers, as I made it a condition for joining a new band who`s drummer is leaving.
They gave me final choice as it`s so important for the bass and drums to click.
I picked the one who made us all sound 20 years younger.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1325107575' post='1479974']...the old guy makes me sound like a plodder (somebody has to keep the beat)...[/quote]
Good evening, gjones...
Seems to be a problem of temperament between you. There are many qualities required in a band, and musicianship is not always the highest regarded (perhaps even more true for drummers...). You may not come out that badly, though, if we cite the example given by The Who. Despite the somewhat extravagant percussion, the bass player (one Entwistle...) is seldom rated as a 'plodder', even with his definite quality of 'keeping the beat'. I rather think that most would rate him as the lynch-pin of the group. Is there no comfort in such a role model..?
As a drummer myself, my innate and immense modesty should preclude me from agreeing with the thread title, but it's generally true, nevertheless. My band is an exception, as it is the singer who makes it all worthwhile. The bass/drums melding is however fundamental for most outfits, the rest is trimmings.

[LukeFRC]

I feel your pain. I used to play with two guys. One was brilliant and we could read each other so well.
The other was from a jazz background and always trying to prove something, half the time I had to plod to give the band something to click to.
Oddly after a year or so break I came back to the jazz guy and it's effortless and brilliant now. I guess people change.

[leftyhook]

I just would not put up with a drummer who refused to keep it simple and know when and when not to be flamboyant.
My current drummer (4th this year) is a solid as they come. I have no idea how flash he can be (no time to noodle when there's gear to set up, instruments, P'A, lights), but he plays the songs right every night
and it didn't take long to lock in with him.For my band at least, we are the rhythm section and we play as a backbone for those in the band who crav e more attention...

[Davo-London]

I so agree that the drummer makes or breaks a band.

One of the reasons I learnt to play drums was because I hated playing with lousy drummers. Now that's someone else's problem!

mwah ha

Davo

[chris_b]

[size=4]I get asked to choose the deps we use on drums because the guys I play with understand how important it is that bass and drums knit together. [/size]

[size=4]I play well with a good drummer and badly with a bad drummer. Never the other way around! [/size]

[size=4]The drummer is 80% of the band for me. The rest have to be up to the job and the material is important but anything less than a great drummer wrecks the gig for me.[/size]

[jjay69]

i totally agree, i feel like i've spent half my playing life waiting for that elusive drummer to turn up.. The op makes very relevant points, i play in 2 bands, one where we go back years with a great, technical drummer whos always on the money, got plenty of experience and can make me feel like im an awesome bassist, it just flows nicely, [i]but[/i] im permanently craving him to stop doing fills and just lock down a lovely funky groove, sadly it'll never happen. The other drummer is getting back into it after many years away and when we jam i feel like a total amature whos just picked up a bass for the first time, the timing is all over the place. Im constantly telling him to feel the song, speed up, slow down, you name it, it feels like im always whinging about something or other and it gets a tad frustrating.
Whats actually happening is im sacrificing my improvement (actually going backwards) while the drummer re-learns his craft and i gotta be honest, it sucks.

So you guys out there who just play, are quite happy and don't even notice your drummer, think yourselves lucky, you've got more than you realise. Imo a drummer who fits right in there is like finding your perfect bass, ie it might take a while !

[Fuzzbass2000]

So, so true.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1325115174' post='1480063'] I just had to audition a few drummers, as I made it a condition for joining a new band who`s drummer is leaving. They gave me final choice as it`s so important for the bass and drums to click. I picked the one who made us all sound 20 years younger. [/quote] Totally agree. When we were auditioning for a drummer, I said that as it was me that did the most work with the drums, I had to be confident of locking in with them. I suppose I`ve been lucky in the last few years, I`ve played with some great drummers, and found no problems in locking in with any of them.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Lozz196

[JTUK]

I think I am pretty good at making a drummer sound good....it is what I do, tbh..
but you have to have something to work with. By the same token, I've worked with some very good payers, IMO.

Just reading a few lines of your ordeals with drummer A would be enough for me to say, I'm out and
I am pretty sure I've also lost gigs because I dared to say so and so was hard work.
Maybe I shouldn't have...but if I am struggling the whole band is struggling..even if they don't know it.

It will never work like that.

But.... what I would do and what you can do sounds the problem... you are going to upset quite a few to resolve this...
so the only thing you can do is either like or lump it... or leave..

[fender73]

I like drummers who have a bit of spark in their playing. I've been fortunate enough as many of you have, to play with some excellent drummers over the years, and i seem to know in the first couple of minutes whether we are going to be a great rhythm section, or just a good one. I currently play with thwo regular drummers, one of whcih plays it 100% by the book, no flash at all, which makes for solidity (is that a real word??) and a great grounding for the guitarists etc, but the other drummers does the same, except with a glint in his eye and knows when just a little hit of the splash cymbal, or a small deviation from the songs standard beat etc would work, to which i'm able to pick up on and follow.

[leschirons]

I currently play with two drummers (not at the same time) One is very funk based and the other more of a rock drummer. I play completely differently with each. I must admit though, I need to be more aware of one and keep eye contact and communication going more than the other and it can make it a harder gig although I have a good relationship with both.

[JTUK]

I'll encourage the drums to have great energy and do whatever he felt would enhance the song.... but you have to trust him to know this which is why he has the gig in the first place.
If he goes very flash..then that can work for the song and I'll go with him as I'll bet I can catch 90% of what he will do and make it work.

The ones I have more trouble with is the guys that just stay there thinking the track needs nothing..... assuming that what they are giving it is all it needs.
we need to both be on the same page or we sound like two guys playing our own parts and expecting it to work.

One of us, has to bend to accomodate.

I find a lot of problems start when one player..be they gtr or whatever sticks rigidly to a part and is oblivious to it not working..but hey, that is ok, because my part is correct...!!!!!

With a new drummer, I never know what the groove is going to be like until 2 bars or so in..so my part has to be fluid upto that point
And that should also apply to everyone.. IMO/IME.

[Bilbo]

I have had various experiences with drummers and totally agree with the OPs premise; a drummer can make or break a band. Now I play mostly Jazz or Latin (about 90% nowadays) and both genres have the reputation for flamboyant drums/percussion but, in truth, anyone who knows anything about drumming will know that its not about keeping it simple per se (although that can be a factor at times), it is about maintaining the core pulse of the music at all times. If a drummer can fly around all over the place and maintain the pulse, then there is little to complain about. The problem is that many developing drummers try to be clever AT THE EXPENSE OF the pulse. I have reached the point now where I won't play with bad drummers. I don't need to (I have about five or six I will go to before I need to compromise) and, if I know the drummer is not going to deliver, I know that the music will be poor and I can't do that any more, even for money.

When I play with a new drummer, I know within seconds whether it is going to work 'timewise'. After that, there are other considerations (a lot of so called jazz drummers are basically pop and funk drummers with a s***load of chops who have great time but who don't quite understand the idiom, thereby compromising the end product not because of poor time but because of contextually inappropriate ideas - I am not communicating that well). The Holy Grail for me is finding the guys who can play the stuff creatively, musically, idiomatically correctly and consistently. There are a surprising number of guys who can do it and, since I have been running my own band, I have never needed to book a dog.

In a nutshell, when I worked with bad drummers, I used to leave gigs thinking it was me, that I couldn't 'do' it. Whenever I worked with a good drummer, I sounded great. So I stopped working with bad drummers and, consequently, have massively reduced the number of negative playing experiences that I have.

[MusicJunkie]

The drummer left the band I was in, and I followed shortly after. I had no click with the new guy and it's just no fun playing bass if you don't have that. Since formed a new band with the old drummer!

Edited December 29, 2011 by MusicJunkie

[BottomE]

The connection between the drummer and bassist is a vital link in the band. Busy drummers are for most music a waste of space and cause all kinds of havoc. I like drummers to be consistent. Play the same tune the same way so that a groove can develop. I can't get on with the type that seem to play a different pattern each 4 bars. The thing is that when you listen to recordings there are hardly ever big cymbal crashes and rolls around the kit. Why then do some drummers feel like they need to do this at each opportunity.

Our drummer is a rock drummer playing funk. It took about a year of nagging to get him to work on the hi-hat, for me, the key to most good grooves. Hes great now but still comes from the rock angle. When we get a dep who comes from the funk it does add something to the band.

[thisnameistaken]

I've always said a band can never be better than its drummer, nobody ever takes me seriously when I say it but I mean it!

I'm off to jam with a new drummer in a couple of hours, music college grad apparently so hopefully he'll be just the ticket. New band on the horizon.

[neepheid]

I must be lucky - I get along very well with my drummer, both musically and personally. This is the second band I've been in with him. When I managed to secure his services for the band I am currently in it was a happy day for me. He's not flashy, he's solid and we lock in well together. We practice stuff that's giving us aggro together, just bass and drums until we get it right. If he has a fault he's far too modest and pessimistic when it comes to his playing ("I've forgotten it, I'll just wing it" - it always sounds good to me )

[risingson]

I think you're bang on the money gjones. Luckily I'm rarely in a situation where I find myself playing with poor musicians of any kind, and my drummer is a really great player. Solid and totally dependable, with a great feel. It's actually something I've started taking for granted, but we prop each other up by working together. There's no other way, and I totally subscribe to the concept that you're only as good as your drummer is.

Bass and drums = the foundation of everything in a band, without them things start to fall to pieces.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1325165755' post='1480410']
I must be lucky - I get along very well with my drummer, both musically and personally. This is the second band I've been in with him. When I managed to secure his services for the band I am currently in it was a happy day for me. He's not flashy, he's solid and we lock in well together.
[/quote]

I used to have a drummer like that, I was in three bands with him, but then he slept with my best mate's wife so I can't really use him any more!

[JTUK]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1325165317' post='1480402']
[b]I've always said a band can never be better than its drummer, nobody ever takes me seriously when I say it but I mean it![/b]

I'm off to jam with a new drummer in a couple of hours, music college grad apparently so hopefully he'll be just the ticket. New band on the horizon.
[/quote]

I'd agree with that...but I'd stretch it to the lowest common denominator for all as well...but sure, drum chair is very important.

And I never assume someone will work up just because they have a decent CV.....
Not wishing a downer on your new gig, tho........

[thisnameistaken]

I know what you mean but fingers x'd, it's taken me six months just to find someone who sounds like they might be able to play...