Recording In A Professional Studio Soon

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='168438' date='Apr 2 2008, 02:23 PM']IMHO If you're recording live drums, and you're a rehearsed band, there is no need for a click track at all.[/quote]

As I see it, one need for recording with a click is when cut/pasting sections of tracks after the song is recorded. If a piece of bassline in a verse (for example) had a fluff in it and it wasn't spotted till after I went home, the engineer could cut/paste that section of the bassline from another verse where the bassline wes flawless. If a click hadn't been used, the band could very easily have strayed from the tempo of the first verse (middle 8 with a different groove, solo section with a more driving/pumping style - lots of reasons), possibly rendering the cut/paste impossible or at least difficult, which of course equals wasted time & money.

We rehearsed with a click last night and recorded the results on the singer's multitrack. Fairly messy set-up: drums went into the drummer's multi-track (Yamaha AW-16, I think) via 5 mics, the stereo masters went out of that into two channels of the singer's multi-track, the guitar was miced and the bass DI'd into the singer's machine, the stereo masters went out of the singer's mach into two channels of our PA mixer, the singer's vocal and guitar went straight into the PA mixer, and it all came out our PA speakers.

Don't ask. It worked OK and we got decent recordings to use as references for future learning - the final tempos and arrangements were decided and we'll get CDs on Monday to use from then on to practice with. The current versions we're using are slower and the arrangements are different.

So I think we'll be okay with a click. We could barely hear it (had to put the drummer's Boss drum machine thru the PA to hear the click and it was getting drowned out in the more powerful parts of the songs), but we were able to identify the types of places where we tended to lose the click and concentrare on it more.

We'll probably be rehearsing with it for all rehearsals from now on.

So far, the advice on this thread has already helped a lot - thanks all.


Mark

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='174338' date='Apr 11 2008, 09:04 AM']As I see it, one need for recording with a click is when cut/pasting sections of tracks after the song is recorded. If a piece of bassline in a verse (for example) had a fluff in it and it wasn't spotted till after I went home, the engineer could cut/paste that section of the bassline from another verse where the bassline wes flawless. If a click hadn't been used, the band could very easily have strayed from the tempo of the first verse (middle 8 with a different groove, solo section with a more driving/pumping style - lots of reasons), possibly rendering the cut/paste impossible or at least difficult, which of course equals wasted time & money.[/quote]

unless you stray from the tempo a significant amount - as in it sounds like a mistake - which it wont if you're rehearsed, then the edits are pretty easy. For example, I have been recording my new band, and the bassist f*cked up half a verse but got the second half of the verse right. Now, i'm playing drums for this, so they're pretty sloppy and we had sped up noticably. I just time stretched the 2nd half of the verse and pasted it for the 1st. I actually had to turn down the gain for this edit as well because the dynamics of the verse had built up. It took about 2 minutes.

I suppose it would be easier from an engineers perspective to use a click, but I don't like to constrain musicians. Don't you feel that it holds you back a bit? I have played to clicks before and I felt it held us back.

[Bullet-Rule]

I can't really add much to the already great points suggested, as I've only been in the studio once. Like others have said, the better you know the material the better it will come out. Also, try and make sure your technique is as clean as possible, because for me it picked EVERYTHING up, so next time I won't be as sloppy.

Good luck, hope it all goes well!

[Phaedrus]

Tomorrow's the big day.

The main man is going in at 11am to lay down guide guitars & vocals.

Me & drummer are going in for 4pm to hopefully record the drums & bass together. I'm pretty sure I'll be overdubbing or punching in corrections after any main takes.

Guitarist is going in on Sunday to do his stuff.

The real vocals & harmonies, keyboards & percussion will all be done on Monday and he's going to mix it all on Tuesday.

We've been rehearsing pretty solid and are all quite excited.

Looking forward to it.

Thanks again all, for your advice & comments,


Mark

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='185189' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:33 AM']Tomorrow's the big day.

The main man is going in at 11am to lay down guide guitars & vocals.

Me & drummer are going in for 4pm to hopefully record the drums & bass together. I'm pretty sure I'll be overdubbing or punching in corrections after any main takes.

Guitarist is going in on Sunday to do his stuff.

The real vocals & harmonies, keyboards & percussion will all be done on Monday and he's going to mix it all on Tuesday.

We've been rehearsing pretty solid and are all quite excited.

Looking forward to it.

Thanks again all, for your advice & comments,


Mark[/quote]

Good luck with it all Mark and make sure you enjoy yourself in the process!

[BigRedX]

I'm surprised that you're not recording the whole band in one go for guides and the bass and drums.

However if everyone has practiced the songs this way then you should be fine.

[Born 2B Mild]

Bring a book, newspaper, laptop, or whatever keeps you quietly occupied when its not your turn. Also, if you need batteries in anything, check 'em before you go. i also recommend a thermos flask & water bottles.

And turn your mobile off!

Break a leg

[bassace]

And expect to be completely knackered by the end of the day.

PS - make sure you can hear what you're playing - sounds elementary but you'd be surprised how difficult this can sometimes be. Make sure your own playback/monitoring is slightly forward in the mix.

[Linus27]

You may not actually use your amp at all. You may go direct into the desk depending on the sound they want for the bass. When we recorded our album, on one track we used my old Fender Telecaster bass with the amp setup in an out building in a tiny room mic'd up to get a fat, boxy dirty sound. However, when I used the Musicman, I went direct into the desk as it gave a really clean punchy sound. The Precision was a mix of both.

We also recorded bass, 1 guitar track and vocals over a drum machine which acted as a guide track which the drummer then played over for his guide. Once the drummer had his part down, we then layered our parts down, starting with bass. You might not get that luxery as we were in the studio for 3 months.

Not sure if you will get the chance to but if you can, set up and run through the songs as a band to just loosen up and get warmed up. have fun with this and just relax and enjoy it. Its a great way to de-stress before actually recording for real.

Make sure you were confortable, loose clothes. It gets hot in a studio, especially when you get to play your part. Your hands will get sweaty, especially if you are nervous.

Make sure you are comfortable and stay confortable. There will be lots of sitting or standing about and you don't want to get a stiff neck or shoulder whilst you are playing or about to play.

If you struggling playing a run or a link, forget about it and move on and either leave it out, simplify it or ask to come back to it if you can. No point getting stressed out as your never get it right.

[Phaedrus]

Thanks guys - all good advice.

What a couple of days we had!

It was an utterly fascinating experience, from start to finish. I stuck around for 7 hours on Saturday and the full 12 hours on Sunday. The songwriter is my best mate and he always says he values my input on everything. As it happend, I'm proud to say I did spot a lot of stuff that needed attention and had to help him focus fairly often.

I couldn't make up stories better than Saturday's events. This is all true.

I was to collect the drummer and our gear from his home at 4pm on Saturday. I texted him at 3:30 or so to say I was on my way. I got to his house at 4 and tried to get into the band room, but it was locked - I'd expected him to have it open and have all his gear ready to load into my car. I went round and knocked on the front door. After a few moments his wife answered in her robe - I had woken her up. At 4pm. I started getting bad feelings.

I asked if he was home. She said she didn't know and we had a look - no sign of him. She rang his mobile - no answer.

They had been out drinking till 5am on Friday night. He had gone to the pub on Saturday morning for a cure. This was going to be a disaster. This guy likes his drink.

I got the band room key and opened up and eventually got the drummer on his mobile. He couldn't speak - he was rubber. He made his way home and when I saw him, I just couldn't believe he'd do this on such an important day. We got him inside and gave him eggs, waffles, toast & spaghetti. And water.

We packed up the car. I had to check he had everything.

We found the studio by 5:30 and when the songwriter saw the drummer, he looked at me like it was my fault. I could only shrug and load the gear into the studio. The drummer was over-talking in that drunken effort to seem sober.

His language was great. Everyone was a motherf*!r or a b@stard, and we could all only laugh. Worst case scenario, the studio had BFD2 - an absolutely amazing drums software package.

So we hooked up and he got behind the studio's kit to adjust it to himself.

By some miracle, we laid down good drums and bass together for all four songs by 11pm.

There were some sloppy fills, which were either re-taken or were quantized, but even the engineer said he was really tight.

What's the lesson here?

Get plastered before you record - it'll be grand?

If you've got talent, it'll shine through even if you're drunk?

Or that if you've been been a drinking drummer since you were 14, you can pull anything off?

In fairness, we gave him the benefit of the doubt - if he hadn't been able to perform, he'd have lost the gig and the songwriter would have used BFD2. The songwriter did have words with him and doesn't want him again if he's been drinking.

We could have lambasted him for it, but there's some tolerance because we're all doing this as a favour and for the experience.

But we did all have great fun and really enjoyed the whole experience.

It's fantastic what can be done with the recording software by a guy who knows what he's doing, and by f*ck does this guy! Before we could say, "the first note in that bass fill is just a smidge before the beat", he'd have clicked a few buttons, dragged the cursor, and pressed the play button and the note would be bang smack where it was supposed to be - still feeling and sounding perfectly natural.

We used a Germaniun pre-amp to record my Yamaha BB5605.

[url="http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/germanium_pre.php"]http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/germanium_pre.php[/url]

It was beautiful - I loved my tone. I left all my bass controls the way I always do - PUP pan, bass & treble all centred, mid-scoop at my normal position and switched on. The engineer said it was a great tone, not unlike an active Musicman. He was amazed that it was a €300 bass.

On one song where I used low D, the volume from the 3rd fret on B was slightly higher than the rest of the bass and there was a little noise from my hitting the fret a bit hard (I kept doing it - the run I play ends on that D, and I just couldn't stop the fretting noise ). I used the studio's Fender Precision with the E tuned to D. I really didn't like the tone - much duffer and less defined than my Yamaha's, but the songwriter loved it, so I re-took that whole song on the Fender. I had to punch in quite a few parts on that song - I stopped playing 4-string when I started playing 5s. Add that the E was detuned and the fact that I was in the spotlight and you can understand why. Still, we had the whole bass track for that song recorded & corrected in less than an hour.

On the way home on Saturday night, me & the drummer stopped off at a garage for some crisps and lemonade. There was a guy ahead of us at the window, paying for his petrol. I heard him ask the teller for a Kit-Kat. When he repeated himself, me & the drummer looked at each other. He repeated "Kit-Kat" again in a louder voice, and then again, with a little hint of agitation, "A KIT-KAT please". When the teller slid a pack of Tic-Tacs under the glass, we couldn't hold back our spluttered laughter. The customer just put the Tic-Tacs in his pocket, rolled his eyes at us and walked back to his car.

The guitarist came in on the Sunday and was his usual self - "bring it on!". There were some timing issues between the guide acoustics and the final acoustics and the final electrics, but after a couple of takes and some corrections, it all sounded great.

So the songwriter is back in on his own today to record the keyboards and the final vocals.

He had hoped to be mixing it all tomorrow, but the studio is not available, so it looks like he might arrange another weekend day where we can all go in again and get in on the mixing action.

It really was a great experience - we'll be recording 4 songs per weekend over the summer, barring holidays (that's how you record on a budget ), so there's a lot more to look forward to.


Mark

[Cantdosleepy]

Great post - thanks!

[silverfoxnik]

Glad to hear you got through it all with your sanity intact..Typical bloody drummer, drinker or both!!

Just goes to show that no matter how you prepare for these situations, people always go and do the unexpected and everyone has to adapt and make the best of it, which obviously, you've done...

Enjoy the mixing session - that's fun!

[tauzero]

Reminded by another thread - make sure that Carol Kaye isn't in the studio. Barricade the door if necessary. Get photographic evidence that it was you playing the bass.

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='tauzero' post='187230' date='Apr 28 2008, 02:13 PM']Reminded by another thread - make sure that Carol Kaye isn't in the studio. Barricade the door if necessary. Get photographic evidence that it was you playing the bass.[/quote]



Done. And video. Posterity and all that. And of course these clips will be used in the special "Making Of" Featurette in the collector's edition DVD box set in 10 year's time...


Mark

[johnnylager]

Forgot to add...

1. - Plenty of fags/baccy & a spare lighter
2. - Some top shelf "art-house" literature for the engineer
2. - Comfy clothes/slippers