What amp should I get?

[alexclaber]

This is what I said in my email about the Classic 450:

"The TC amps have a lot of compression and filtering built in which you can't avoid (which makes them sound louder than their true wattage - 236W in the case of the Classic) - some love it, some hate it, so it's very much a personal thing!"

[ShergoldSnickers]

Take a look at the Genz Benz Streamliner range as well. Capable of clean or overdriven with three pre-amp valves feeding a lightweight Class D power section. Very suited to the S12T, having heard the combination. The streamliner 600 should be within budget.

[Clarky72]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1325837510' post='1488413']
This is what I said in my email about the Classic 450:

"The TC amps have a lot of compression and filtering built in which you can't avoid (which makes them sound louder than their true wattage - 236W in the case of the Classic) - some love it, some hate it, so it's very much a personal thing!"
[/quote]

Cheers for the clarification Alex!

I think I'm going to stick with the advice given to me by Alex, Brensabre79, Raggy, Shizznit and a few others here. Genz Benz it is, Shuttle 6 or 9, sounds like they're the best solution for me, I've read up about them and watched a few clips of them. Off to find one to try in a store next weekend to make sure, then hopefully pick one up from BassDirect on their deals and then take a drive down to Brighton soon for a Barefaced S12T to finish the new rig. I did consider MarkBass but not too sure about their sound, plus I hate yellow...

Anyone need an Ampeg BA500? It'll be up for sale pretty soon now!

Thanks for the help and advice guys.

Lets not all fall out over a little TC amp eh? ;-)

[Raggy]

Keep us posted

[markstuk]

My S12T is equally loud with my Markbass F500 and TC RH450.... I think this TC amps/cabs made in heaven thing is a little bit of a red herring..There is no magic involved in cab design, just driver performance, crossover design and the physics of a resonant box with/without holes in it..Of course understanding how to get the best out of a given set of factors/compromises is a skill, as well as understanding that there is no one single best design for all requirements.

Given that the last figure I saw for TC212 efficiency when I was looking around was 99db/1w/1m and it's a rear ported cab suggests that it was designed for portability as it's main focus, rather than efficiency or presence..

The gain structures of the RH and F500 are quite different, but at full "still a nice noise" chat it's all much of a muchness.. And using one channel of my QSC PLX2402 (about 800W RMS) is pretty much the same, as was my HK bassbase 600...

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1325784377' post='1487680']
Yeah thats roughly where I was before I went for the GB. One of their product designers is on the 'American bass players who like to talk to each other' forum (can I say it?) and seems a pretty cool and knowledgeable dude. Having spoken with various people who know more than me, I decided the GB was the one for me, plus it was seriously reduced at bassdirect. I have not been disappointed.

From what I discovered about the TC stuff, the TC amps work best with the TC cabs (which in turn work best with the TC amps). I think it goes along the lines of, the amps are nowhere near as powerful as their counterparts, but they are compressed and their speakers are very sensitive so the end result is a loudness equivalent to a more powerful amp driving a less sensitive speaker or something like that. Maybe a TC owner can enlighten me on that one! but I guess that means if you put a TC amp into ANOther speaker it won't be so loud and if you put ANOther amp into a TC speaker you're likely to overload it...?
[/quote]

Edited January 6, 2012 by markstuk

[Lozz196]

Yep, my TC was very loud with either 2 Ampegs, or a Marshall 412.

Re Genz - I`m sure that will be a good choice, I don`t think I`ve read anything negative about this brand.

[JTUK]

All I can offer is that I've heard TC750's up close and they are defintely very pokey...

You may expect that from a 750 rated type amp.. but all an amp is to me is loud enough and good enough tone-wise..!!
What is a watt..?? who cares..!!

Some of my gtrs turn up with 12 watt kettles and still put it out.

[shizznit]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1325853553' post='1488737']
All I can offer is that I've heard TC750's up close and they are defintely very pokey...

You may expect that from a 750 rated type amp.. but all an amp is to me is loud enough and good enough tone-wise..!!
What is a watt..?? who cares..!!

Some of my gtrs turn up with 12 watt kettles and still put it out.
[/quote]

Totally agree. Efficiency and quality give better results. Don't be tricked into think bigger necessarily means louder!

I think we are in the golden age of bass amp technology and the range of high quality products out there is amazing. The first time I played a Markbass rig....I swear that Marco De Virgiliis was using witchcraft to build his amps!

[Clarky72]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1325856187' post='1488799']
The first time I played a Markbass rig....I swear that Marco De Virgiliis was using witchcraft to build his amps!
[/quote]

haha

Edited January 6, 2012 by Clarky72

[pete.young]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1325843617' post='1488492']
I think this TC amps/cabs made in heaven thing is a little bit of a red herring.

[/quote]

When Dusty organised a mini-bash in his studio in Southend, we had the opportunity to try a TC450 through some TC cabs, and then A/B head and cabs with dave.c 's LH500 and Aguilar GS112s.

I thought the results were quite surprising - the TC sounded fantastic and very loud through the TC cabs, and very puny in comparison when put through the Aggies - we had to crank it quite a bit to get back to the same volume. The LH500 sounded better through the Aggies and was slightly louder than through the TC cabs, although the difference wasn't as marked as it was with the TC450. I accept that this was a very subjective and unscientific test, so it fits right in with 95% of this thread ;-)

[markstuk]

Sure, all of these things are subjective and my music room at home is not ideal acoustically, but I do have the luxury of having the ability to compare stuff side by side.. The bit I did not mention is that I have an EBS proline 410 as well - which efficiency wise sits in the same space as the BF S12T and is 4 ohms nominally as well. I also have a Sansamp Programmable BDDI to drive a QSC power amp.. That gives me a bunch of options to compare at my leisure as it were... The S12T sounds more articulate and open than the EBS, the EBS has a bit more warmth - although I think the EBS tweeter is a little shrill which makes it sound a little nasty unless the tweeter control is wound down... However it's always worth remembering that all amps appear to have different gain structures - The F500 is really loud at "4" but does not get much louder above that.. The RH450 is much more linear in terms of it's gain structure.. I've not done any comparisons with the TC cabs though, but it's hard to see a reason why they should be much more wonderful than any other decent cab of the same impedence and driver characteristics apart from marketing bullsh*t, although I'm always willing to be enlightened... I suppose voicing is the other alternative, but that would be pretty variable based on source and EQ...

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1325876114' post='1489318']
When Dusty organised a mini-bash in his studio in Southend, we had the opportunity to try a TC450 through some TC cabs, and then A/B head and cabs with dave.c 's LH500 and Aguilar GS112s.

I thought the results were quite surprising - the TC sounded fantastic and very loud through the TC cabs, and very puny in comparison when put through the Aggies - we had to crank it quite a bit to get back to the same volume. The LH500 sounded better through the Aggies and was slightly louder than through the TC cabs, although the difference wasn't as marked as it was with the TC450. I accept that this was a very subjective and unscientific test, so it fits right in with 95% of this thread ;-)
[/quote]

[Musicman20]

The Shuttle 6.0 will get absolutely eaten alive by the RH450/Classic 450 when it comes to volume levels, no matter what the wattage. The Shuttle 9.0 is probably the same 'volume' when it comes to actual output when you turn it up, and that's taking into account the volume tapers. I am saying this even though I LOVE Genz amps and their amazing customer service.

If you are using the large BF cab, choose an amp that isn't going to need the bass bumping a lot, (the Shuttle 6.0 Hi Pass filter is designed to protect the little Shuttle cabinets...the absolute low end will be quite shy because of the design unless you boost the low end a lot). Basically, the new Shuttle 6.2, old Shuttle 9.0 or new Shuttle 9.2 should be your choice. If you don't care about size, get the Max 9.2

All manufacturers seem to get the wattage wrong. Markbass LM2/3s seems to put out under 400watts, but are rated at 500. They clamp down with their limiters quite harshly as well. Not pleasant like Genz and TC amps where you can literally turn it all the way up and not care.

I would worry less about small magazines using unscientific testing in a vacuum to test 'wattage'. Whatever TC do, they are ahead of the game when it comes to engineering and it IS beyond what we understand on here. I'm sorry, but are any of us involved in high end amplification design and manufacturer? I mean to the level of TC?! No. Most of us are reading forums and not using our ears. Some of their products really are light years ahead of what others are making, (high end effects, amazing tuner pedals, etc).

I recommend you try:

TC RH750
Genz Streamliner 900
Genz Shuttle 6.2, 9.0, 9.2 or the Max 9.2

[solo4652]

I'm following this thread with interest. I have a Barefaced Compact and a TC Classic 450. I play a USA G&L L2000. I'm finding that the combination of the G&L and Classic 450 can get pretty tone-rich and warm/thumpy pretty quickly. I'm also a little concerned about volume levels at a gig - I have a rather light touch and I'm beginning to wonder whether I'll need more oomph to be comfy alongside 2 rock guitarists and a fairly heavy-handed drummer at gigs.

The Shuttle 6 deal (rated at 600W/4 ohms)for £400 looks inviting, but would it actually give any more cut-through and loudness compared to the Classic 450 (rated at 450W/4 ohms)?

It's all so confusing.

Steve

[Musicman20]

Definitely not. I'd opt for another cabinet to add (more speakers is better than pummelling one with lots of watts). The Shuttle 6.0 will not hold out as well against their latest amps or the RH amps. Been there and tried it. The 6.0 is great but it was designed with the compact Shuttle cabs in mind. Try the 9.0 or the new Genz shuttles if you fancy more power and a different amp.

[BassBunny]

If you are looking for 2 completely different sounds, why not try an EQ pedal with more than 1 channel. Something loke a Sansamp with 3 Channels and you can shape 3 different sounds.
Might even be worth trying with your current set-up.

[JTUK]

hmmm.. I ran a SM400 at 4 ohms in 2 112's and they could deal fine with a very powerful drummer, keys and a gtr.
The keys can really swamp sound as a sensible gtr will wipe of bass freqs to suit the band mix, IMO, and the amp was fine.
The SWR SM400 is not noted as being a LOUD amp but does have very powerful EQ which I rang flat on the semi 4 band Para.
I use it less now as the replacement amp is better plug 'n' play but volume wasn't the problem..altho I thought at the time it might be.

And I am also a very light touch player... I've not meet anyone who can't get more oomph out of my set-up than me.

[Clarky72]

Well I'm more confused than ever.

There's an equal amount of love and nervousness around both the TC and GenzBenz. 41 posts and not really any nearer a decision. There's been moments when I thought yes, TC, then hours later definitley GB. Hmmm...

[markstuk]

Pop up to Bass Direct near Warwick, have a chat with Mark and play with all the relevant GB/TC/MB whatever amps you can.. In actual fact I don't think any of them is going to disappoint you, but it's your call.

[Clarky72]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1325958245' post='1490436']
Pop up to Bass Direct near Warwick, have a chat with Mark and play with all the relevant GB/TC/MB whatever amps you can.. In actual fact I don't think any of them is going to disappoint you, but it's your call.
[/quote]

That's probably what I'm going to have to do, order the S12T from Alex, pack that into the car with a few basses and head up there one afternoon...

[sifi2112]

I've a Super12 & power it with GK700RB-II .. monsterous ! I did have a TC Classic 450 first but sold it .. didn't seem to have the power .. no regrets so far .. did try a GB (shuttle I think) at bassdirect & thought it was a fine amp ... best to try (in real band scenario if possible)

my 2c

Si

[WalMan]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1325839184' post='1488436']
Take a look at the Genz Benz Streamliner range as well. Capable of clean or overdriven with three pre-amp valves feeding a lightweight Class D power section. Very suited to the S12T, having heard the combination. The streamliner 600 should be within budget.
[/quote]This.

When I got my S12T I paired it with a Markbass Little Mark Tube that worked well and sounded good. Not tried the LM Rocker with the S12T but tried one at the Bass show last year and for me it was too dirty for most of the use of the Tube dial, BUT that was not a test in the best conditions.

Anyway in Nov I sold the LMT and got a GB Streamliner 6 and I love it with the S12T

As mentioned elsewhere in a similar thread to this one when I got the Streamliner I took my S12T & basses down to Nevada to try out the Streamliner with what I would be using, and took the opportunity to try a Shuttle 6 as an A/B to the Streamliner. I had gone to look at the Streamliner but it seemed ensible the try botrh.

Again for me the Shuttle was a much brighter & clinical sound. Good, but not with the valvey warmth I was after, and I turned the tweeter completely off. By comparison, the Streamliner was warmer and I then dialled a bit of the tweeter back in. I had one intending to get the Streamliner, and that is what I came away with

So far I have used it for classic rock, prog & country/Americana gigs and it has been great for all styles.

Then againit is all subjective to rach of us. I feel the Streamliner was better suited to getting what I wanted than the Shuttle on a test, and the LMT in gigging use, but the person I bought the LMT off had gone to a Streamliner, and I know has gone back to the LMT as he preferred that.

Sooooo, the sum total of all this is try the Streamliner, and LMT as well if you can, and if you can find a dealer that has both (Nevada do both MB & GB gear) and will let you bring in your bass and cab to test then I should add those two to your testing list.

Enjoy

[Clarky72]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1326007297' post='1490857']
This.

When I got my S12T I paired it with a Markbass Little Mark Tube that worked well and sounded good. Not tried the LM Rocker with the S12T but tried one at the Bass show last year and for me it was too dirty for most of the use of the Tube dial, BUT that was not a test in the best conditions.

Anyway in Nov I sold the LMT and got a GB Streamliner 6 and I love it with the S12T

As mentioned elsewhere in a similar thread to this one when I got the Streamliner I took my S12T & basses down to Nevada to try out the Streamliner with what I would be using, and took the opportunity to try a Shuttle 6 as an A/B to the Streamliner. I had gone to look at the Streamliner but it seemed ensible the try botrh.

Again for me the Shuttle was a much brighter & clinical sound. Good, but not with the valvey warmth I was after, and I turned the tweeter completely off. By comparison, the Streamliner was warmer and I then dialled a bit of the tweeter back in. I had one intending to get the Streamliner, and that is what I came away with

So far I have used it for classic rock, prog & country/Americana gigs and it has been great for all styles.

Then againit is all subjective to rach of us. I feel the Streamliner was better suited to getting what I wanted than the Shuttle on a test, and the LMT in gigging use, but the person I bought the LMT off had gone to a Streamliner, and I know has gone back to the LMT as he preferred that.

Sooooo, the sum total of all this is try the Streamliner, and LMT as well if you can, and if you can find a dealer that has both (Nevada do both MB & GB gear) and will let you bring in your bass and cab to test then I should add those two to your testing list.

Enjoy
[/quote]

Thanks for that, that's really helpful. I think BassDirect have both MB & GB too, I'm going to have to drive up there with my gear and try them out. To be honest I hadnt heard much raving about the Streamliner, but now I think I'll have a look at that one too. There's no harm in trying out as much as possible once I've humped all my gear up there!

[Clarky72]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1326007297' post='1490857']
So far I have used it for classic rock, prog & country/Americana gigs and it has been great for all styles.
[/quote]

I would need a nice middly 80s pop tone out it too, have you managed to get something like this out if it without it sounding too modern and clinical?

[WalMan]

[quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1326020619' post='1491009']
I would need a nice middly 80s pop tone out it too, have you managed to get something like this out if it without it sounding too modern and clinical?
[/quote]Not sure. It's not the sort of stuff I do, but if you could find somewhere to A/B it I would add the Streamliner to the (evergrowing ) list. The STM has bass, middle & treble controls with a selection of three bands for the mids so you might well find it there. The Shuttle probably has more overall control, but like I say for me it wasn't what I wanted.

[Clarky72]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1326024125' post='1491097']
Not sure. It's not the sort of stuff I do, but if you could find somewhere to A/B it I would add the Streamliner to the (evergrowing ) list. The STM has bass, middle & treble controls with a selection of three bands for the mids so you might well find it there. The Shuttle probably has more overall control, but like I say for me it wasn't what I wanted.
[/quote]

Thanks, I'll go try them out