The Stick Thread

[EMG456]

Welcome to the crazy world of the Chapman Stick!

The only advice I feel qualified to give would be to "stick" with it. (Ouch!) I don't know how you're feeling about it but I certainly thought that having about 33 steady years of bass experience before I started with the Stick would give me a head start but I actually found that my skills were not so transferable after all. I found the reverse 5ths tuning on the bass side very difficult for playing bass lines and found even interaction between the hands not easy, let alone independence!

Fortunately, I'm stubborn and persistent so I'm finally getting somewhere but in reality it's taken me a lot longer than I thought it would and I'm still no virtuoso.

Play as often as you can and pay attention to your setup - If you're playing out make sure you have the truss rod tool with you - the neck can move from one environment to another and if the action is out of whack, it can really throw you especially at the start.

If you want to play "normal" bass lines on it, some players change the bass side to a 4ths tuning - easy to play fluid basslines like you are used to but against that you lose the compact open chord voicings that 5ths gives you.

You're right to think that it's easy to take over a whole band's sound with the stick - played all at once it can be an enormous, dense sound leaving little space for anyone else but if your bandmates like it, they'll likely start to make adjustments to accommodate you. For example, the guitarists I play with will often switch to mandolin or Dobro if I'm going to be playing stick - there's lots of room to experiment and no real rules or traditions with the Stick - it's very much whatever you choose to make it.

Also be prepared to make lots of new friends if you play it out. It may be different if you mingle in the prog-rock circles but for most types of music, yours will be the first Stick an audience has ever seen and the questions come thick and fast! 🙂 

One last thought just now - Sticks sound much better in Stereo than mono, even if your just going through a mono setup like a bass amp - something to do with the impedance loading on the pickups I believe so if you don't have multiple inputs on your amp setup, invest in a little mixer - I use a Boss LS-2- and it will sound much brighter and livelier.

Overall, my Stick journey has been at times frustrating but hugely enjoyable. It hasn't diminished my love for the bass but it has enhanced my musical knowledge no end and frankly I can't imagine being without one now.

Best of luck and if there's anything you want to know, just ask!

[Lfalex v1.1]

Many thanks for the helpful reply EMG456.

I'm already using headphones but in mono. Still ok for now though.

I have a mixer and lots of ideas how to use it... All I have to do is find the power supply for it 

🙄

[Lfalex v1.1]

Found the mixer PSU... And off we go in 2 channels!

Funny how you forget to apply all the good things you've learned along the way..

I'd assumed that the slightly thin sound was my technique.

It wasn't (particularly!)  Both sides needed a smidge of EQ, and bingo! 🙄😂

Edited December 5, 2018 by Lfalex v1.1

[Daz39]

Gosh I would love a Stick!

[Lfalex v1.1]

16 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

Gosh I would love a Stick!

It took me long enough to get one!

And there's so much to learn.. and selectively remember/forget from guitar or bass playing.

The Melody strings are familiar in terms of fingering patterns but alien in that you're likely to be playing it with your right hand.

The Bass strings are what you're used to in terms of your left hand, even though they're  upside down..  it's the tuning in 5ths that's odd!

[EMG456]

7 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

The Bass strings are what you're used to in terms of your left hand, even though they're  upside down..  it's the tuning in 5ths that's odd!

Even odder is that in an emergency, you can just play all the patterns you usually play on the bass but string to string jumps take you to the right note but in the “wrong” octave.

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 05/12/2018 at 23:29, EMG456 said:

Even odder is that in an emergency, you can just play all the patterns you usually play on the bass but string to string jumps take you to the right note but in the “wrong” octave.

You're right.

That is odd. And true. I tried it!

One of the best pieces of advice I've had so far, the others being;

Get close to the rear edge of the frets for best tone and clarity.

Don't be afraid to use the flat portion of the neck for your thumbs.

Don't think of it as a tapping instrument. Think of it as a "gripping" instrument- lightly but firmly.

Don't be afraid to experiment with it. If it works for you, then do it!

[ForestPoetry]

I've been quietly GASsing for a Stick most of my life, having been a huge Peter Gabriel/ 80s KC fan as long as I can remember. Nick Beggs and Sean Malone are two other great stickists who spring to mind.

It's one of those things where I ask myself "could you actually play that" - it's a big wide board, you need serious hand/finger independance and I don't have the biggest hands for a bassist - but I'm nothing if not stubborn when it comes to getting on with learning something new like that.

Is it easy to "fret" a Stick and do you need 10-inch fingers to be able to pull it off? When I see Levin or someone playing it they look like they're not applying any pressure at all.

[Lfalex v1.1]

36 inch scale means the string tension is lower than you're used to.

The board isn't as big as you think.. and the "neck" is shallower and helps improve your reach. I don't struggle with that aspect in spite of having less-than enormous hands!

The hard parts are; (IMO)

How do I get to try one?

When I've got one, how does it fit into a band in a musical sense?

 

[EMG456]

2 hours ago, ForestPoetry said:

It's one of those things where I ask myself "could you actually play that" - it's a big wide board, you need serious hand/finger independance and I don't have the biggest hands for a bassist - but I'm nothing if not stubborn when it comes to getting on with learning something new like that. 

Stubborn will do! As lfalex-v11 says, the strings are quite low tension and the precision of the build and fretting on any stick I've tried means that a very low action is possible. You are lightly tapping on the strings and it doesn't feel anything like tapping on a bass that's set up for normal playing.

I don't think reach is an issue either, both of my Sticks are just about the same width as a 6 string bass at the 24th fret and one has ten, the other 12 strings so string to string spacing is a bit tighter. Of course the Stick neck is parallel.

The other thing is, I wonder if I had been able to go into a shop and try one, would I have then bought one? I fear maybe not, because I was so inept on it I may have just said "mmm… not for me" It's not the first time that it's been mentioned that the Chapman Stick absolutely seems like a great idea right up to the moment you strap one on...

I'm in Glasgow so if you're ever around these parts, you're welcome to try mine.

[Lfalex v1.1]

1 hour ago, EMG456 said:

...The other thing is, I wonder if I had been able to go into a shop and try one, would I have then bought one? I fear maybe not, because I was so inept on it I may have just said "mmm… not for me" It's not the first time that it's been mentioned that the Chapman Stick absolutely seems like a great idea right up to the moment you strap one on...

That's very true!

It's a real leap in the dark, even if you get to try one out, it feels even more alien than the first time you get any other stringed instrument strapped on.

It's like an initiation... The feeling of ineptitude, but I think you've just got to possess the stubbornness you've described and persist with it.

I've been going about 6 weeks now, and sometimes something resembling a tune comes out, and every so often I'll manage an "Oh! That was alright" moment where I'll take a chance and improvise or wind up getting a note way up at the Dusty End that actually fits.

My style is beginning to develop a direction, too.

I tend to play bass lines with chordal embellishments from the Melody strings. Or just go the whole Levin and play 2-handed bass lines! 😁

[EMG456]

Yes, I notice that every time I see a clip of Tony Levin on Stick, he seems to be mainly playing the "bass" side *or* the melody side, almost never both at once?

One of the reasons I had for learning Stick was so that I could make a complete sound on my own, in the way a pianist can. so to this end, I've been concentrating on bass note and partial chord on the left hand with melody or other partial chord on the right hand. It's a bit of a handful especially when singing as well but it's getting to where I wanted it to be. As soon as a band hears the lovely Stick tones, they want you to play it in the band and it's then that the "less is more" discipline has to be brought into play.

Have you checked out Kevin Keith? He does a great job of the funky bass line and melodic chord thing but again in a very intimate environment.

Keep us posted on your progress - at 6 weeks I was lucky to string 3 or 4 predictable notes together!

[prowla]

I nearly bought a Stick a year or two ago, but the planets didn't quite align, so it didn't happen.

The first player I heard with one was Alphonso Johnson, I saw King Crimson when they did some warm-up gigs as Discipline, and I've also got a Jim Lampi album.

 

[Woodinblack]

I saw one last month for sale - maybe the same one you got, sounds about the same!

I thought about it but it was too far from home to take a chance with. If it had been somewhere I could drive easily I would have gone for it, but not sure it wouldn't end up being one of those things I wouldn't use. I have no real musical outlet for it in my current group and my prog cover group idea isn't going anywhere fast!

[Lfalex v1.1]

I've finally overcome a major obstacle. And acquired a stand for the stick. Keeping it in the hardcase was a major bind.

Just got a cheap Stagg item from Argos. It's not perfect, but the Stick stays put on it.Somewhat cheaper than the $130 that Stick Enterprises want for theirs (and that's before shipping & taxes)

[Woodinblack]

On 15/05/2019 at 19:02, Lfalex v1.1 said:

I've finally overcome a major obstacle. And acquired a stand for the stick. Keeping it in the hardcase was a major bind.

I understand that, that is why none of my basses are in cases. Something in a case doesn't get played.

On 15/05/2019 at 19:02, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Just got a cheap Stagg item from Argos. It's not perfect, but the Stick stays put on it.Somewhat cheaper than the $130 that Stick Enterprises want for theirs (and that's before shipping & taxes)

Getting very keen on getting a stick. Finding one is a bit of a pain though!

[Lfalex v1.1]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

I understand that, that is why none of my basses are in cases. Something in a case doesn't get played.

Getting very keen on getting a stick. Finding one is a bit of a pain though!

Have you tried Stickist.com? It's basically like Basschat for Sticks. They have a "For Sale" section on there. I appreciate that the bulk of the members and traffic  are US based, but there are UK/European members who might have something up for sale.

[Woodinblack]

Yep, looked on there, shows me loads I missed out on and none currently!

[Woodinblack]

Yay!

[BreadBin]

I'd really like a go on that at next year's Bash 🙂

[prowla]

Sigh, maybe one day...

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, BreadBin said:

I'd really like a go on that at next year's Bash 🙂

I suspect it would generate a bit of interest there. Its not something you get to have a go at often, as it is the first one I have ever touched!

2 hours ago, prowla said:

Sigh, maybe one day...

Well, the guy had another one, a much cheaper (and older) one.

[BreadBin]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

I suspect it would generate a bit of interest there. Its not something you get to have a go at often, as it is the first one I have ever touched!

Well, the guy had another one, a much cheaper (and older) one.

I wonder how many times you'd hear Elephant Talk? 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, BreadBin said:

I wonder how many times you'd hear Elephant Talk? 

Having played the stick a bit now, from people who had never played one at all, I am guessing hardly at all!

 

[prowla]

10 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I suspect it would generate a bit of interest there. Its not something you get to have a go at often, as it is the first one I have ever touched!

Well, the guy had another one, a much cheaper (and older) one.

Hmmm - need to see if I get a new job...