Mikey D Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Some will say Wow! Some will say Why!? But this man can definately play. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeJt1cB7AA0"]Giant Steps[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 [quote name='Mikey D' post='167585' date='Apr 1 2008, 12:14 PM']Some will say Wow! Some will say Why!? But this man can definately play. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeJt1cB7AA0"]Giant Steps[/url][/quote] phenomenal, ridiculous, unbelievable.... I'm pissing myself, and I love it! Thanks Mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Brilliant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Not bad at all! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Very clever. But what an utter sh*t piece of music. Sounds like a parody of w***-jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='168383' date='Apr 2 2008, 12:32 PM']Very clever. But what an utter sh*t piece of music. Sounds like a parody of w***-jazz.[/quote] You don't like it, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I admire his skill. But the tune? Call me ignorant/arogant or whatever, but I genuinely don't believe there is anyone who likes that music. Its all just an act and conspiracy to become accepted amongst the middle classes. But the guys got talent. And a lot of time on his hands I would expect. He should spend his time doing something constructive though. Like composing something good. Or curing cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='168399' date='Apr 2 2008, 01:49 PM']a/I admire his skill. b/But the tune? Call me ignorant/arogant or whatever, but I genuinely don't believe there is anyone who likes that music. Its all just an act and conspiracy to become accepted amongst the middle classes. c/But the guys got talent. And a lot of time on his hands I would expect. He should spend his time doing something constructive though. Like composing something good. Or curing cancer.[/quote] I have to agree with you on a and c, but b...I do actually like the tune, a lot. It's actually one of my favourite albums, but to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) 'Giant Steps' has a certain notoriety that arises from its use of a complex set of chord changes known colloquially as 'Giant Steps changes'. The series of chords in question follow a cycle of ii-V-I changes that shift by major thirds and tritones (instead of the normal fourths and fifths etc) rendering all routine bebop cliches ineffective. In a nutshell, you can't 'fake it' over these suckers. The melody is actually quite accessible (I suggest you listen to a clip of it on Amazon or something - it starts at the top so you will hear it straight off) but the soloing takes some getting used to. Playing against these changes is widely regarded as the apex of sophisitaiction in terms of harmonic movement etc and many jazz fans, musicians and listeners alike, continue to guage a musicians core competences on their ability to make sense of them. Improvising a solo over these changes is hard. Improvising a good solo is VERY hard. Improvising a great solo - that's somewhere in the region of as tough as it gets. This piece of music is not elitist per se but rather it is arguably as far as you can go with complex harmonies in terms of be-bop and associated genres. Basically, if you want to be a jazz musician per se, you need to deal with these changes to a greater or lesser extent. I haven't heard Mikey's version (I will try to later) so cannot comment on it but I know I struggle with them and, every time the tune gets called, I regret not having worked harder or longer on them. I guess that may be one of the reasons why I play jazz in small pubs in East Anglia not in The Barbican! For the record, Coltrane didn't invent these changes, they were heard much earlier than his 1959 recording but only in obscure corners of minor tunes. 'Giant Steps' features them in a wholly integrated way that was unprecedented. For the Paul Chambers fans amongst you: had you spotted that Kind Of Blue and Giant Steps were recorded a fortnight apart - not a bad couple of weeks work, eh? Edited April 2, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='168435' date='Apr 2 2008, 01:22 PM']For the Paul Chambers fans amongst you: had you spotted that Kind Of Blue and Giant Steps were recorded a fortnight apart - not a bad couple of weeks work, eh?[/quote] Now that definitely deserves better than "not bad"! The Giant Steps changes are one reason why I will never be a jazz musician - so hard to handle I'd rather just write something new! I can totally see that if you aren't into jazz then this is about as inaccessible as it gets (once you get past the head at least). BBC, maybe if you changed your beret for a black one and worked on the beard then all this jazz would become All That Jazz! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='168435' date='Apr 2 2008, 02:22 PM']I haven't heard Mikey's version (I will try to later) so cannot comment on it but I know I struggle with them and, every time the tune gets called, I regret not having worked harder or longer on them. I guess that may be one of the reasons why I play jazz in small pubs in East Anglia not in The Barbican![/quote] I don't really have a version anywhere. I did a video a while ago how to play cells through it and one on my old 8 string after playing for a couple of months. But when I get back to brum I will try and do one for some critisicm/comments as I have been working on somethings that make it, "a little" easier to play on it. Unless you meant you haven't seen that video up there yet...I don't think I will ever get to that standard. On piano anyway! Edited April 2, 2008 by Mikey D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 You've never heard 'Ascension' then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU[/url] Was just playing along to this, and noticed that I'm dragging slightly. Seems my reading is getting a bit rusty unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc B Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I quite enjoyed that actually - I might need to go and buy a black polo neck. He plays bass better with one hand than I do with 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Actually, I was disappointed by this now I have seen it. Seeing someone play someone elses solo, even in this manner, is no more exciting than any other 'set piece'. He has achieved a lot by learning Coltranes GS solo (one of many, many versions he recorded) but his bass/piano trick is not really that different rhythmically from an ordinary piano player with a capable left hand. Fun tho' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='168733' date='Apr 2 2008, 08:37 PM']Actually, I was disappointed by this now I have seen it. Seeing someone play someone elses solo, even in this manner, is no more exciting than any other 'set piece'.[/quote] Exactly how I feel about classical musicians sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='168459' date='Apr 2 2008, 01:43 PM']You've never heard 'Ascension' then!! [/quote] [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='168608' date='Apr 2 2008, 05:13 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU[/url] Was just playing along to this, and noticed that I'm dragging slightly. Seems my reading is getting a bit rusty unfortunately.[/quote] I think for BBC's punishment.....in showing disrespect to the heavy weight of jazz, is to sit through both editions of Ascension, followed by a dose of Interstellar Space :brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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