KennysFord Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Folks, I want to change the speakers in my Omni 10 to Neo's but still run the can at 8ohms. The reccomended driver for 500 watt application is only available in 8ohms so not suitable. Are there any of you guys that can point me in the right direction for a good driver. I know there's plenty to choose from but I'd rather go with a reccomendation than trying pot luck. Thanks in advance, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Pretty sure suitable speakers are lsited by BFM, might be best asking on his site. The weird alignment in BFM cabs means you can't use WinISD to predict stuff. Also, what is your impedance concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1326031629' post='1491255'] The weird alignment in BFM cabs means you can't use WinISD to predict stuff. [/quote] Below horn loading it behaves pretty much like a reflex box IIRC, I had issues with the similar Jack 10 and made a hornresp model and a winISD model (ignoring the area of the horn) and compared both those to the measurements. 200Hz-ish the horn loading starts to take over I think? The hornresp model was pretty good actually. As far as I understand BFM cabs require drivers with a rising midrange (to help fill the hole in the mids introduced by the horn design), the steeper the better, which makes the eminence offerings (such as the deltalite ii and one of the basslites?) pretty much the only good options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Cheers for the reply MrFoxen. The ones listed on the BFM info that's in the the plans states a Eminence Deltalite II 2510 for my preferred application, however it's only available as an 8ohm speaker so my cab would run at either 4 or 16ohm. The cab in it's current form is 8ohm and I would rather it stay that way. I really like the cab and want to keep it but make it lighter with the addition of a pair of Neo's. I'm taking the cab to Dave Perry's for a service in the coming weeks so would like to have a pair of speakers ready to install. Thanks again, Pete. Thanks Laurence, you replied whilst I was typing mine. Edited January 8, 2012 by kennyrodg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 BFM himself will probably be along to advise...but 16 ohm drivers does limit your options somewhat. Maybe the 18Sound 10NMB420? http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=274 Alternatively, could be worth seeing if replacement 16ohm deltalites are available as OEM from any cab manufacturers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thanks very much for you input lawrence, (got the spelling right this time) Looking at the specs of that speaker it could be a possibility. The cab sounds pretty good as it is but having bought it not built it I think I'll delve inside to see what the drivers are. Looking arounf t'internet at what's available it does seem a bit odd that the cab is 8ohm and not 4ohm. I suppose on option would be too replace the current drivers with the Deltalite II 2510's and have a good,fairly lightweight "one cab alternative" for smaller venues. I'll look into what other cab manufacturers have as replacements as well, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks again, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 [quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1326035260' post='1491315'] The cab sounds pretty good as it is but having bought it not built it I think I'll delve inside to see what the drivers are. [/quote] While you're at it, weigh them to see if a neo 'upgrade' is actually worth the difference and for which potential models. One drawback of those 18Sound drivers assuming they're more or less suitable is they're each still nearly a kg more than the deltalites. I'm pretty sure other manufacturers will have had 16 ohm deltalites at some point, there are enough 8 ohm 2x10s on the market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 [quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1326031286' post='1491247'] run the can at 8ohms. [/quote]Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Hi Bill, Thanks for coming along. i want to run the cab at 8ohms then I have the option of running another cab for larger venues if required. If you there is no need or a better option for me i'd appreciate the advise. See forum title=Numpty Thanks, Pete. Edited January 8, 2012 by kennyrodg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 [quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1326038442' post='1491390'] Hi Bill, Thanks for coming along. i want to run the cab at 8ohms then I have the option of running another cab for larger venues if required. If you there is no need or a better option for me i'd appreciate the advise. See forum title=Numpty Thanks, Pete. [/quote]You'll likely find 4 ohm or 16 ohm drivers hard to find. I don't know of any off hand, neo or ceramic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd really advise any bass player to avoid 4 or 16 ohm drivers. Most of the available ones were designed as 8 ohm drivers and then offered as a service to customers as 4/16 by simply adding a different voice coil. Because the rest of the speaker was designed to work optimally with the 8 ohm coil they are usually not as good as the 8 ohm version. Guitarists get away with it because they are not so interested in the bottom octave (two if you include the one we have that they don't). Changing the coil also changes all the speakers parameters so they no longer match the box. Stick to the recommended drivers, they were chosen for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Hi Phill. Thanks for the reply. I think I'll be taking your advise and getting the correct drivers for the job. The Omni will be a good one cab solution for smaller gigs after all. It makes me wonder why it's 8ohm in the first place, I like the cab now so maybe with the Deltalites I'll like it even more. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys as ever. Pete. Edited January 10, 2012 by kennyrodg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1326186421' post='1493339'] It makes me wonder why it's 8ohm in the first place [/quote]Good question. None of the drivers recommended for it are available in 4 or 16 ohm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'll bring it home tomorrow and have a delve inside to see what's in there. I'll post back once I find out. The guy I bought it of said it was definitely 8ohm, we'll see I guess. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1326186084' post='1493337'] I'd really advise any bass player to avoid 4 or 16 ohm drivers. Most of the available ones were designed as 8 ohm drivers and then offered as a service to customers as 4/16 by simply adding a different voice coil. Because the rest of the speaker was designed to work optimally with the 8 ohm coil they are usually not as good as the 8 ohm version. Guitarists get away with it because they are not so interested in the bottom octave (two if you include the one we have that they don't). Changing the coil also changes all the speakers parameters so they no longer match the box. Stick to the recommended drivers, they were chosen for a reason. [/quote] This is a valid point. OTOH most 4 ohm 410s will use 16 ohm drivers and there are some of those that work very well. Getting the correct specs for alternative ohm versins can be tricky though. That 18Sound I linked to is specifically 16 ohms though, including frequency plots, T/S data. I'd generally be more concerned using 4 ohm drivers because of the series wiring effect on inductance. Safest option is definitely to go with the recommended deltalites, but bear in mind the horn loading cut-off means you will presumably still have the low bass output capability of a good 'normal' 210. I certainly found that with the Jacks (but for a lot of people this will be enough if you like the voicing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1326205303' post='1493752'] Good question. None of the drivers recommended for it are available in 4 or 16 ohm. [/quote] According to my plans, the Beta10 was a recommended driver and that has a 16 ohm variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='clauster' timestamp='1326286624' post='1494898'] According to my plans, the Beta10 was a recommended driver and that has a 16 ohm variant. [/quote]There may have been a Beta 10b (16 ohm) at some point, but it's not currently offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1326290957' post='1494975'] There may have been a Beta 10b (16 ohm) at some point, but it's not currently offered. [/quote] I hadn't realised that Eminence don't offer them anymore. They can still be found over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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