Ancient Mariner Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='umph' timestamp='1326301361' post='1495182'] Did you do any measurements with gear? [/quote] None - I don't have any valve testing kit or even a 'scope and the amp was cathode-biased. TBH it wasn't meant to be an in depth investigation, so much as a look-see as to whether there was an audible difference*. FWIW one of the UK guitar mags ran a comparison of cryo treated and standard valves from Watford Valves shortly after and found something similar, but no-one believe magazines because they're only there to help shift product. I'd be very surprised if there would have been much to measure. The instruments we use don't seem sufficiently subtle to detect sonic differences in components of the same nominal value despite such differences existing in 'simple' things like caps (Brownnote on 18watt.com built 2 identical amps, 1 using cheap Mallory caps and 1 using Zoso super-expensive caps. When tested blind we all preferred clips from the amp with cheap caps, and the difference was very obvious). Just like we hear with our 'eyes' we also hear with our expectations and prejudices. I don't really expect everyone to become automatically convinced, but I'm also offering my experience as an independent experimenter with no interest at stake other than knowledge for it's own sake. If people don't want to know about it then that's fine. *I would be interested to know if anyone here could actually tell the difference between EL34, 6L6 and 6CA7 power valves in a guitar amp. After all, we've had a thread started today where the OP realised they couldn't tell the difference between different brands of bass string. Edited January 12, 2012 by Ancient Mariner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Only lobbed the cryo thing into the original post as it seemed like a counsel of despair, 'quality ain't what it was but hey we can hack it'. There certainly is alot of snake oil in the hifi world, check out the Russ Andrews site. The Kodachrome thing is interesting. I think there's still a film underground but primarily with black and white film which was always easier on the home dark room and seen as serious photography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='cytania' timestamp='1326360898' post='1495847'] Only lobbed the cryo thing into the original post as it seemed like a counsel of despair, 'quality ain't what it was but hey we can hack it'. There certainly is alot of snake oil in the hifi world, check out the Russ Andrews site. The Kodachrome thing is interesting. I think there's still a film underground but primarily with black and white film which was always easier on the home dark room and seen as serious photography. [/quote] Film is still used, although as each year passes it gets less and less popular and the choice of products available is shrinking all the time. You couldn't process Kodachrome - it was an incredibly complex process and the cost of processing was included in the cost of the film (except in the US ironically) along with a bright yellow envelope to send it off in. I can still remember the excitement of seeing those bright yellow envelopes dropping onto the doormat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1326325027' post='1495653']...As a piece of useless trivia, Kodachrome was actually invented by two musicians... those damn b*ggers get everywhere... [/quote] Of course, it was Simon and Garfunkel, wasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='mart' timestamp='1326377217' post='1496288'] Of course, it was Simon and Garfunkel, wasn't it? [/quote] Just 'cos you live in Wales it doesn't mean I can't have you tracked down and slapped you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhay77 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1326327499' post='1495680'] [size=4]If valve production depended on musicians then it would have stopped 30 years ago!![/size] [/quote]Yeh,cause theres been no valve amps made in the last 30 years! Lol. No,seriously,Even if valve amp production ceased in 20 years with thousands of amps and pre amps made every year using valves,production of valves wont stop,let alone for the hundreds of thousands in the used market. Supply,demand and profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm not too worried about the valve market disappearing anytime soon, but the neo market could be another matter. For the moment, the neo market is very wrapped up in Chinese politics, so it can always go either way at a moments notice. While I'm hoping for some short term stability soon, the long term outlook certainly isn't great. There's just no getting around the fact that mining neo is an environmental nightmare and while other countries may jump into the game, don't expect this to drive down neo prices on the world market anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hi Roger, nice to see you on Basschat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Thanks Steve-Soar. I keep fairly active on TalkBass, but some players there from the UK have suggested that I get more active with BassChat as well. Sounds like good advise to me and it's a great site to keep up on what's happening in the bass world on the other side of the pond. Cheers! Edited January 13, 2012 by R Baer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyslimfast Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1326327733' post='1495683'] Valves are more obsolete for hifi that they are for MI, and there is still a market there. [/quote] Indeed - and these sort of things are becoming more prevalent in the consumer hifi market (as opposed to high-end audiophile) as well... http://www.fat-man.co.uk/docs/product_07/iTube_ValveDock.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can't imagine valves or neo going anywhere for a while. They're both popular enough to keep manufacturing and it'll take a long time to stop using them when so many people love them. Technically there's no real use for valves at the moment, most decent SS amps have a warm tone without needing the valves. Neodynium is the same to an extent, there's no NEED for it (though having light cabs is brilliant). I use a hybrid head and neo cabs and can honestly say that if valves and neodynium disappeared I wouldn't lose to much sleep over it. There's plenty of alternatives that do the job just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 There's a certain interaction I get from tubes, that I just haven't experienced with a solid state amp. I usually like my preamp set fairly high, just shy of tube breakup. This lets me ease up a bit a keep things clean sounding, while letting me really dig in for something like a chorus, or guitar solo and throw a bit of grit into the mix. And an all tube power section is just heaven for me. Sure, some solid state amps sound "tube like", but I haven't heard one yet that will put a smile on my face like an all tube head will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [url="http://news.techeye.net/business/rare-earth-prices-drop-as-chinas-grip-loosens"]This[/url] looks like good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1326973505' post='1504455'] [url="http://news.techeye.net/business/rare-earth-prices-drop-as-chinas-grip-loosens"]This[/url] looks like good news. [/quote] Not if you are one of the non-Chinese that has jsut been plowing vast sums into restarting exploitation of non-Chinese rare Earth deposits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1327003994' post='1505165'] Not if you are one of the non-Chinese that has jsut been plowing vast sums into restarting exploitation of non-Chinese rare Earth deposits. [/quote] This is the problem with investing in something that has an inherent and significant time lag before it comes on stream. The strategic position will be improved, but yes, there may be a few worried investors out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1326330530' post='1495708'] I don't really expect everyone to become automatically convinced, but I'm also offering my experience as an independent experimenter with no interest at stake other than knowledge for it's own sake. [/quote] Were the assertion coming from Watford valves or 'Guitarist', I'd flip my hand negligently in the air and go 'la la la'. That a man of good standing such as yourself has given it a go and heard some sort of difference, I'm more inclined to suspend my disbelief and allocate some credence to the proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1327005149' post='1505187'] This is the problem with investing in something that has an inherent and significant time lag before it comes on stream. The strategic position will be improved, but yes, there may be a few worried investors out there. [/quote] Or the Chinese exploiting the workings of capitalist economy, further investors get spooked, the whole plan falls over and is mothballed again, China jacks the price again. Makes good sense, if you are China. Not even like it was a slow turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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