MelP Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The question I have is that I can't understand why the Minor 2nd interval of C is C#. In the minor scale, the 2nd is D. Is the interval not related to the appropriate scale? The Major 2nd interval for C is D and this ties in with the major scale. In fact all the other intervals like major and minor 3[sup]rd[/sup], perfect 4[sup]th[/sup] and so on tie in with the major and minor scales; it’s the just the minor 2[sup]nd[/sup] that doesn’t. I have got Bass Guitar for Dummies which is a great book but it hasn't provided an explanation yet. Thanks. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Stricly speaking the minor 2nd is Dflat, not C#. I appreciate that doesn't help asnwer your question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Woodcock Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) [size=4]As Kirky says it should be [color=#000000][font=sans-serif]D[/font][/color][font=Arial Unicode MS][color=#000000]♭ (C# is the enharmonic equivalent of [/color][/font][color=#000000][font=sans-serif]D[/font][/color][color=#000000]♭ but then that would be called an 'augmented unison' rather than a 'minor 2nd').[/color][/size] Edited January 10, 2012 by Stickman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgie Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just because it's a Minor scale doesn't mean every interval in the scale is Minor! In the C Major scale for example, chord 1 is Major (C), chord 2 is Minor (Dm), and chord 3 is minor (Em). Even though the interval from Root to 3rd is Major, the Major 3rd of the scale's own chord is Minor. In your example, you say in the Minor scale, the 2nd is D. That's because in the Minor scale, the interval from Root to 2nd is still a Major one, ie C to D. And as Kirky said, a minor 2nd up from C would be Dflat. Hope this helps, I'm not very good at trying to explain theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelP Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Still none the wiser. Are you saying that the minor scale note numbers 1 to 8 don't have to be the same as the minor interval numbers? If so, that's a shame when trying to understand scales, chords, triads and intervals. You can tell I'm a newbie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='MelP' timestamp='1326203558' post='1493716'] Still none the wiser. Are you saying that the minor scale note numbers 1 to 8 don't have to be the same as the minor interval numbers? If so, that's a shame when trying to understand scales, chords, triads and intervals. You can tell I'm a newbie! [/quote] I think you may be mixing up intervals with scale degrees. The former is the distance between any two notes. Maybe this site will explain things better than I can. As for being a newbie, we have all been there ! http://www.studybass.com/lessons/intervals/about-intervals/ Edited January 10, 2012 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelP Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think you're right, thanks. Just a shame that the minor 2nd interval is the odd one out when compared to major and minor scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) The natural minor scale has your root note, a major 2nd, minor 3rd, perfect 4th, perfect 5th, minor 6th, minor 7th, perfect 8th (octave). So, 1, M2, m3, P4, P5, m6, m7, P8. Phrygian & Locrian modes have a ♭2. Your confusing your self with scales & intervals. [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Intervals in the modal scales: (Nomenclature : P-perfect;M-major;m-minor;A-Augmented;D-diminished)[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Mode Root 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Ionian I [b]R M M P P M M[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Dorian II [b] R M m P P M m[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Phrygian III [b]R m m P P m m[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Lydian IV [b]R M M A P M M[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Mixolydian V [b]R M M P P M m[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Aeolian VI [b]R M m P P m m[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Locrian VII [b]R m m P D m m[/b][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace][b]EDIT.[/b][/font] Formattings not working for some reason which makes it a little harder to read. Edited January 10, 2012 by JakeBrownBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='MelP' timestamp='1326205276' post='1493751'] I think you're right, thanks. Just a shame that the minor 2nd interval is the odd one out when compared to major and minor scales. [/quote] Think of an interval as the SOUND difference between two notes as well as the difference on the actual fretboard. Get the sounds of the different intervals by playing an exercise like this : Starting with C as the root, play D flat (an interval of a minor second), then play the root again and go to the major second (D) then root to minor third E flat), root to maj third (E), etc all the way up the scale. Over time your ears will become accoustomed to the sound of each individual interval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelP Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks for all your help; it's starting to make sense now. Realistically, what should I focus on learning first - scales, intervals, triads etc? I've been playing in a band for a year now and doing ok but I want to take it to the next level. Style is rock with some blues (www.facebook.com/yWorryUK). I've been learning major and minor pentatonic scales and playing along to some blues stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='MelP' timestamp='1326206978' post='1493792'] Thanks for all your help; it's starting to make sense now. Realistically, what should I focus on learning first - scales, intervals, triads etc? I've been playing in a band for a year now and doing ok but I want to take it to the next level. Style is rock with some blues (www.facebook.com/yWorryUK). I've been learning major and minor pentatonic scales and playing along to some blues stuff. [/quote] Glad you are having that "light bulb" moment !! While no one can deny the importance of knowing your scales, as a bassist it is CHORDS that you will play 90% of the time. So, I would recommend that you concentrate on chord tones ( triads and four note chords). That "Study Bass" site I linked is one of the best. Here, it explains why chords are important. http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/ Best of luck with it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1326207518' post='1493800'] Glad you are having that "light bulb" moment !! While no one can deny the importance of knowing your scales, as a bassist it is CHORDS that you will play 90% of the time. So, I would recommend that you concentrate on chord tones ( triads and four note chords). That "Study Bass" site I linked is one of the best. Here, it explains why chords are important. [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass...es-are-primary/[/url] Best of luck with it !! [/quote] I think you may have turned his light back off with this explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1326207518' post='1493800'] Glad you are having that "light bulb" moment !! While no one can deny the importance of knowing your scales, as a bassist it is CHORDS that you will play 90% of the time. So, I would recommend that you concentrate on chord tones ( triads and four note chords). That "Study Bass" site I linked is one of the best. Here, it explains why chords are important. [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass...es-are-primary/[/url] Best of luck with it !! [/quote] Chords & scales go hand in hand together. You should spend equal time learning both. It's like learning to walk but with only one leg.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) a good way to remember which spelling of a note to use is the idea that you generally won't have two of the same note in a scale so if you already have a C root, the next note up, be it a b9, 9 or #9 will be a D 'something' (i.e Db, D or D#) as C has already been used... that principle works in the vast majority of cases. Edited January 11, 2012 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1326287224' post='1494905'] Chords & scales go hand in hand together. You should spend equal time learning both. It's like learning to walk but with only one leg.... [/quote] At no time did I say that scales were not important. The point I was making is best explained here on one of the most reputable bass tutorial sites : [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass...es-are-primary/[/url] FWIW the legendary bassist Carol Kaye endorses the same principle as explained here. [url="http://www.abrsm.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t2803.html"]http://www.abrsm.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t2803.html[/url] Edited January 11, 2012 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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