Writing songs on the bass.

[Spoombung]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1327058494' post='1505735']
I think it depends entirely on the genre and style of what you are trying to write. If you are writing 'traditional' songs in the singer-songwriter mode, which have a formal harmonic structure i.e. songs that stick closely to the 'rules' (whatever they are....), then possibly no. If however you are writing music that is more riff or groove based, or you are doing something a bit more off the wall then most definitely yes...


[/quote]

Good answer.

[HughRichardson]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1326240984' post='1494499']
The suggestion came up that we, that is my band, write a few original songs. The aim to begin with was to just play covers but what the hell . I said I'd be up for that. As I don't actually play anything else, bar the fool, I assumed the song writing would come solely from the guitarist. However, the others are keen that I should come up with some ideas.

I don't know if this just means a nifty riff to work off or a whole song, probably the former. That aside though, and just as a sort of idle question, has anyone else written songs starting with the bass/on the bass?
[/quote]
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Marvin, it's perfectly possible to write music on any instrument and doing so on the bass is something you shouldn't shy away from. I have just started a free youtube series covering things like using chord tones, what the role of a bass player is, how to start building a line and what you can get by listening to others. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIHncaNaDw"]Check out part 1 of 3 here[/url]. Hopefully it will shed some light on this subject.[/font][/color]
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Best,[/font][/color]
[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]
Hugh[/font][/color]
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www.hughrichardson.co.uk[/font][/color]

[lee4]

I've used both bass and acoustic guitar to write songs(mainly alt-country and country rock styled stuff).
It depends on what you create first.Is it the bass-line,the melody or the chord structure?
Bass lends itself to all three(IMO),guitar gives other band members a "fuller" idea of what the song will be like,but it's up to you to find what is best for you.
As long as you can articulate your ideas so that the band can expand on them you could use a zither,a tuba or a kazoo!

[Guest oZZma]

I have a question for those who do most of the writing in their band (or solo project)

What's your writing process? Do you start with spare riffs and then put then together? Or write in the same order as the song proceeds? (Example: you write the intro, then what comes next, and then what comes next, etc)

Do you have a "method"? 

I have been writing for two years now but everything is still chaotic, lenghty and often frustrating to me.

Share your experience!

[Lfalex v1.1]

I can't write for toffee!

I just can't see enough of the whole picture in isolation.

If someone else can do the outside edges of the jigsaw, I can fill in the middle...

All my best stuff derives from other people's work.

 

On the very rare occasion that I do produce anything, guitarists, drummers etc. all look at me blankly, as if to say "What do I do with that, then?"

[Marc Day]

I've done a little of that myself and this is my view. As a bass player It isn't easy to write "whole songs" alone unless you play another instrument, as I don't, but it doesn't stop you having ideas for rhythms or riffs, which are often enough to get the ball rolling when the rest of the band hear them at rehearsal. It can sometimes work if you come up with something and have a clear idea in mind for the other instruments, but it can often seem to others that you're telling them what to do. Some people are okay with that, but others might not like it.

I've been playing since 79 and have never written a song myself, but have collaborated in the writing of loads, sometimes with a complete band and at others with just one other guy.  As long as you have someone to deal with the melody it all gets a lot easier. Personally, I found it better working with only one other and then taking it to the rest of the band to add their parts. Otherwise too many ideas can get thrown at it making things a bit messy and confusing. 

Here's something I'd definitely advise against, because I've tried it too often and never known it to work. If you decide as a band to go into the rehearsal studio cold with the idea of writing, you'll probably end up sitting around like a bunch of lemons and achieve nothing. Been there (too many times) and done that. As long as one of you comes in with even the smallest seed of an idea for everyone to work with it often works out better.

The question of playing covers or original tunes often depends on the venues you're playing. If you show up at your average pub for the first time and play a set of original material they probably won't like it, unless you're really exceptional. They're usually just interested in hearing stuff they know. Play a 'proper' music venue and your audience will often expect and like hearing something new.

Beginning with a set of covers is a good idea for a few reasons. For a start it will get you gigging faster, which seems to be what you want. It also gives you a chance to test the water  with venues and audiences and possibly build up a bit of a following. That would be the time to start dropping the odd cover from the set and introducing some of your own stuff.

Hope even some of this makes sense and helps, but good luck with it anyway.

 

[Guest oZZma]

9 hours ago, Marc Day said:

 

Beginning with a set of covers is a good idea for a few reasons. For a start it will get you gigging faster, which seems to be what you want. 

Not really, I'm interested in the writing itself. But thanks for the insight anyways

[hooky_lowdown]

Depends on what genre (as many people have said), but many "great" songs were written very quickly. If writing is slow or becoming laborious, then I say drop it.

I generally noodle about, over time I have built up a number of riffs or hooks I like, then use them as a starting point, and fill in verses, bridges etc. If you don't have most of the songs structure fleshed out in the first 5 minutes, then leave it, and start with another riff.

[Guest oZZma]

7 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Depends on what genre (as many people have said), but many "great" songs were written very quickly. If writing is slow or becoming laborious, then I say drop it.

I generally noodle about, over time I have built up a number of riffs or hooks I like, then use them as a starting point, and fill in verses, bridges etc. If you don't have most of the songs structure fleshed out in the first 5 minutes, then leave it, and start with another riff.

???

It would never work for what we do (somewhat proggish stuff, just to give a rough idea), and anyways I am strongly convinced that writing must be laborious, only, not as much as is is for me, which Is exaggerated

[Marc Day]

1 hour ago, oZZma said:

Not really, I'm interested in the writing itself. But thanks for the insight anyways

Being fairly new here, I've probably done something wrong or we may just have our wires crossed. My comments were intended as a reply to Marvin's initial post on the thread, so I was talking more specifically about his questions than generally. As it happens, I'm more interested in original music than covers myself, but telling Marvin what we prefer isn't much of an answer to his question.

[Guest oZZma]

20 minutes ago, Marc Day said:

Being fairly new here, I've probably done something wrong or we may just have our wires crossed. My comments were intended as a reply to Marvin's initial post on the thread, so I was talking more specifically about his questions than generally. As it happens, I'm more interested in original music than covers myself, but telling Marvin what we prefer isn't much of an answer to his question.

I assumed you were talking to me because the opening post is like 6 years old 😂 

I'm a necrothread resumer 💀

[AndyTravis]

I bolt riffs/ideas together.

i have a bank of silly little riffs which I call upon and then turn them into sections of a tune.

[Marc Day]

1 hour ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Depends on what genre (as many people have said), but many "great" songs were written very quickly. If writing is slow or becoming laborious, then I say drop it.

I generally noodle about, over time I have built up a number of riffs or hooks I like, then use them as a starting point, and fill in verses, bridges etc. If you don't have most of the songs structure fleshed out in the first 5 minutes, then leave it, and start with another riff.

I make you right on just about all that. It's pretty much how I've done it myself. I played with a band a few years back and we all kind of did 'homework' between rehearsals and come to the next one with a few little ideas to bounce around. The majority got binned, but there were always a few that worked out.

Our singer was a really good lyricist, but wasn't musical in the sense of an instrument, but there were times when he'd come in with the words and we'd start there. The mood or sentiment of the lyrics kind of dictated things like rhythm and tempo as well as the general feel and we'd work from that.

I also agree with you about wasting time on it. As you say, songs that work generally come together quite quickly. Too often the band would hammer away at an idea for hours with no result. Shelving an idea for a few weeks then having a fresh look at it sometimes worked though. 

[Marc Day]

9 minutes ago, oZZma said:

I assumed you were talking to me because the opening post is like 6 years old 😂 

I'm a necrothread resumer 💀

That would do it!🤔

[lowdown]

With a Bass and your voice, you can write what you want, probably in most styles.

Of course, it starts to get a bit tricky when you try and whistle a semi quaver (16th's), EDM Arpeggiator pattern, at 132 bpm, to fellow musicians.

 

 

[Marc Day]

7 minutes ago, lowdown said:

With a Bass and your voice, you can write what you want, probably in most styles.

Of course, it starts to get a bit tricky when you try and whistle a semi quaver (16th's), EDM Arpeggiator pattern, at 132 bpm, to fellow musicians.

 

 

Very true and once you have the rhythm in your head there's no reason you can't work out some simple ideas for the melody on bass either. Mind you, without being over busy, I've always been one of those who likes to put a foot across the line into the 'forbidden zone' now and then with some songs and get a little involved with both the melody and rhythm.

Even when that works well with the song, you'd be surprised at how many guitarists get the right hump about it. Can't think why. 

[Leonard Smalls]

Luckily with us melodies are few and far between...

So I nail together a number of riffs in funky prog-punk style, guitarist puts some feedback over the top, drummer does an over-complicated pattern that speeds up by at least 10bpm over the song, then the singer shouts some lefty-stuff. Tom's yer uncle!

[Marc Day]

20 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Luckily with us melodies are few and far between...

So I nail together a number of riffs in funky prog-punk style, guitarist puts some feedback over the top, drummer does an over-complicated pattern that speeds up by at least 10bpm over the song, then the singer shouts some lefty-stuff. Tom's yer uncle!

That's too weird for just a comment mate! You'll have a message shortly. 

[Leonard Smalls]

6 minutes ago, Marc Day said:

You'll have a massage shortly. 

I hope you're going to warm your hands first!

[Ricky 4000]

43 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Luckily with us melodies are few and far between...

So I nail together a number of riffs in funky prog-punk style, guitarist puts some feedback over the top, drummer does an over-complicated pattern that speeds up by at least 10bpm over the song, then the singer shouts some lefty-stuff. Tom's yer uncle!

That's fine for writing love songs, I suppose... 😀

[Marc Day]

4 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

That's fine for writing love songs, I suppose... 😀

Oooh! Bit harsh that mate.

[Marc Day]

29 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I hope you're going to warm your hands first!

Never mind about that mate. Have you seen the message yet? I've just added something else to it.

[Leonard Smalls]

38 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

That's fine for writing love songs, I suppose... 😀

Here's one of our love songs...

 

[ambient]

I’ve done whole albums on bass; chords, melody, everything. It’s down to your imagination I guess. Just enjoy it.

[Ricky 4000]

10 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Here's one of our love songs...

 

Glorious! 😃

I've been listening to more of your stuff as well, and you're really f***ing good. 😎